GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Dec 12, 2007 12:27:58 GMT -5
...I think we can do our own "canon" that doesn't cater to later editions... what say y'all--er---you???
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Post by Scott on Dec 12, 2007 12:30:04 GMT -5
Seriously, the first thing that we would need to determine is what the goal is. Clarify and expand the info for the setting as it stood at the time of EGG's departure? Evolve the setting in a direction that it would have gone on if Gary would have retained control? Something else?
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Dec 12, 2007 12:33:39 GMT -5
I (as always...) think "Gary input" would be great! What if we asked Gary about visiting when all of us could be there? I have lots of vacation waiting for me.... What do you think?
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Dec 12, 2007 12:34:43 GMT -5
We can compile an idea/questions list and see what he thinks...
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 12, 2007 12:40:58 GMT -5
I know it doesn't seem right to us but all opinions aside, if he was to have Greyhawk's "Cathay" (as he called it) developed then he'd have to stand by this statement: My opinion of course conveniently is of the disposition that OA in its entirety is a vast bowel movement of a game addition however if Gary put the final stamp on it would have been much more playable. NB: AND NOT BECAUSE I'M TAKING HIS WORD FOR IT (Gene snaps on his flame thrower and burns all the eyerolling FR apologists before any of them utter some "smarm". If there are any here.) Its because he would have made it more consistent and he was very fickle at TSR not because I'm a "Gygax chauvinist" because I'm not. I'm very critical of Gary.Notice the prefaces for UNEARTHED ARCANA are all written on the same day and the prefaces of ORIENTAL ADVENTURES are: Gygax September 1985 Cook September 17th, 1985 Breault October 2, 1985 Mike Breault's quote is priceless: Oops, Mike let the cat out of the bag on that one. Cook must have been bragging that he wrote the entirety. Of course this only serves the discriminating old TSR fan to phase this book into where it belongs..THE TRASH! What was I saying? Oh yeah, if we actually had the Gygax stamped OA then he may have put his recommendations into play. WHats good fot the goose is good for the gander as they say...Wait, I mean isn't it like do as I say not do as I do? NO....I know...do I go down to your mother's job and slap the d-...OOOHH!! Wrong forum for that ! Seriously, if he's telling us to do this then he had to to do it, right? Perhaps an Occidental new monk class was something that he had in mind to correct that. I wouldn't put it past him because as I recall most people assumed Friar Tuck when they first heard of a monk class. And why not? The cleric is based on a tidbit from the SONG OF ROLAND why not have a mendicant who can have a more direct unarmed fighting style without all the Shaolin jive? Anyway, with all the above to put in your pipe and smoke, I think the time may have been up for old Xan Yae as nothing but an afterthought. Perhaps, Gary would readily answer this query?
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 12, 2007 12:44:06 GMT -5
Geez, as I typed that 400 replies were made. Talk about out of context!
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Dec 12, 2007 12:46:56 GMT -5
Owwwww!!! Geeez, Gene!! Smack me while I'm lookin'! Seriously, I have no problem with an Occidental "monk" outside of maybe the level titles; but I can live with that (or change 'em!) You are correct about the "Cleric = Archbishop Terpin" thing though...
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 12, 2007 12:55:05 GMT -5
The direction for this is to rant and bitch until Greyhawk is reborn from pure hatred. I think we can all agree on that. Seriously, Rob can't be part of this because he'll diffuse any attempt at saving Greyhawk into this POV merry go round that goes nowhere. I would gladly welcome Gary's commentary even though he's obstinate and hard to deal with on GH but at least real GH still exists to him. He just sees it as dormant in way. Which is the POV that we all share.
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Dec 12, 2007 12:59:05 GMT -5
... So, then... What do you think? Can we pull something of value off? I've been waitin' 20-odd years... ^__^
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ghul
Enchanter
Posts: 272
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Post by ghul on Dec 12, 2007 13:14:12 GMT -5
Thanks for the kind words, GT. One thing I think all should be in agreement on is the use of the '83 boxed set as bible material. Meaning, an expansion of materials contained therein is in order, but that any contradiction to said material should be discouraged.
What I would like to see is a proper GH timeline that expands on the list on the boxed set; one that includes all the developments as portrayed in The Sorcerers Scroll, if we are to consider these developments canon as well. I believe these events take the timeline to about 579 CY, if I'm not mistaken. How far do we go? Is Fate of Istus perhaps the last canonical official release, or is this where GH begins to "jump the shark" as it were. Perhaps we should come to a consensus on where canon ends and where this proposed fan material expansion begins.
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Post by Scott on Dec 12, 2007 13:38:47 GMT -5
Gary will never never never never never participate in this at this time. My opinion is that the best option would be to put out some 'generic' stuff that 'introduces' a setting that is IP safe. Once it proves to be a viable venture, Gary may be willing to contribute a bit.
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 12, 2007 13:41:08 GMT -5
If anything has huge texts its probably best avoided.
For example, any more information on the "Lerara" is something that I never want to see. It was a one shot deal in its best form as it was. However, something detailing a hidden aspect of another group just as slightly "with light brush strokes and room for development" (as Gary says frequently) is something that I might want to see. He had that "Lerara bit" as somewhere over there with no real time line attached and its perfect as it is. Thats what I'd like to see.
Another example would be the breeding grounds of Iuz. Isn't it better to produce a new creature from there with an afterthought reference than to actually show some kind of layout and history to the breeding grounds?
If there is history, I'd like to see it short, pertinent to a new idea only, and somewhat questionable in source.
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Post by Scott on Dec 12, 2007 13:44:55 GMT -5
I think it is too early to think about releasing setting level material, but some decisions need to be made on where the setting stands so we have a base to work with. Start with adventures that are not really generic, but disguised, and tied to the setting and taking some of the 'evolution' into account.
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 12, 2007 13:52:49 GMT -5
Gary will never never never never never participate in this at this time. My opinion is that the best option would be to put out some 'generic' stuff that 'introduces' a setting that is IP safe. Once it proves to be a viable venture, Gary may be willing to contribute a bit. Alright, but how would the development be managed?
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 12, 2007 13:54:09 GMT -5
I think it is too early to think about releasing setting level material, but some decisions need to be made on where the setting stands so we have a base to work with. Start with adventures that are not really generic, but disguised, and tied to the setting and taking some of the 'evolution' into account. So you're saying a Greyhawk adventure ala Maze of Zayene?
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Post by Scott on Dec 12, 2007 13:57:38 GMT -5
That's a good example Gene.
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Post by Scott on Dec 12, 2007 14:08:17 GMT -5
An adventure that establishes the outcome of the Thrommel furyondy/Veluna issue would be good. Something in the Horned Society that involves the State of the World material Dragon. Something that includes the outcome of the Isle of the Ape adventure in the background.
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 12, 2007 14:10:48 GMT -5
So the premise can have an all new multi-layered "Greyhawk-ian" group's area of operation and ambigously GH related visitors (ala the Cloud Giants in the Giant series).
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Post by Scott on Dec 12, 2007 14:19:56 GMT -5
Sure. I have the notes to an adventure I started that included a fire giant named Ingvar Snurreson, a displaced fire giant 'noble'.
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 12, 2007 14:43:24 GMT -5
I meant as a general example of placement of quasi-GH related stuff with the cloud giant reference. By having visitors with quasi-GH related reasons for being there.
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