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Post by Scott on Oct 12, 2009 10:50:58 GMT -5
If you just use the Greyhawk setting material, what do you think the Scarlet Brotherhood would be up to in the next few years (578 +)? Anything as open and large as the events from the Gord books? Any specific targets?
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Oct 12, 2009 11:52:02 GMT -5
Nyrond or Furyondy would both be likely targets. I think that they would view the Great Kingdom as a dangerous (as in Knights of Doom) but unstable opponent and would therefore concentrate on the most likely threats. Of course, depending on what Iuz was up to, they might target him as well. They would probably forge an uneasy alliance with the Horned Society, since both have at least nominal "diabolical" connections, but such an alliance would be akin to Hitler's and Stalin's at the beginning of WW II. And don't forget their little slaving operation... ^__^
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 12, 2009 12:12:42 GMT -5
Kidnapping and expansion seemed to be the pattern. How about all the manipulation (killing, kidnapping, marriage, discrediting legitimate heirs, etc) of Suel lines in the royalty across all the borders for years and years all of a sudden revives a lost dynasty and finally gives the SB greater legitimacy and interkingdom authority? Maybe a new order of knights?
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Post by Scott on Oct 12, 2009 12:23:12 GMT -5
There’s definitely some conflict with Iuz, per the snippet in ToEE.
Didn’t they work with the GK in the Gord stories?
The alliance with the HS seems pretty logical, especially if they anticipate conflict with Iuz.
I like the idea of them using the Pomarj as a base of operations, and having a presence in Hepmonaland and the Olman Islands.
Do you think they would still have an agenda against the Bakluni, or would conquest of the Flanaess be the priority?
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 12, 2009 12:29:10 GMT -5
Nyrond or Furyondy would both be likely targets. I think that they would view the Great Kingdom as a dangerous (as in Knights of Doom) but unstable opponent and would therefore concentrate on the most likely threats. Of course, depending on what Iuz was up to, they might target him as well. They would probably forge an uneasy alliance with the Horned Society, since both have at least nominal "diabolical" connections, but such an alliance would be akin to Hitler's and Stalin's at the beginning of WW II. And don't forget their little slaving operation... ^__^ Sounds convincing. The Hitler angle could be played up as well. As I mentioned along "gens" but also other superficially NAZI ideas as the "lost artifacts" angle has been done in that vein already: Kidnapping MUs for work on megaweapons Promoting the loose idea that ancient Aerdi are somehow akin to Suel Destroying books, information and replacing with garbage propaganda. A tavern push of Suel sensibilities. etc. |
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Post by Scott on Oct 12, 2009 12:31:01 GMT -5
Do you think there is enough of a Suel ethnic identity (outside of the SB) or any nations left that identify strongly enough with the Suel Empire to care about a claim to the rightful heir of the Suel Empire?
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 12, 2009 12:40:43 GMT -5
There’s definitely some conflict with Iuz, per the snippet in ToEE. Didn’t they work with the GK in the Gord stories? Yeah, but the GK can be looked at through so many angles it'd be hard to pin which version is allied. They were allied but it could have been temporary for the novel under the banner of bif "T" why not revive it? As GT mentioned with the Slave series, I think theres no reason to collapse that because the adventures are over. I'd think it would've never left and expanded knowing those SB characters. Either they're still against the Bakluni or the Bakluni are still against them but having so many knight orders in place filling the "protector" role then why would they bother wasting resources? |
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 12, 2009 12:54:27 GMT -5
Do you think there is enough of a Suel ethnic identity (outside of the SB) or any nations left that identify strongly enough with the Suel Empire to care about a claim to the rightful heir of the Suel Empire? Yeah, just look at page 14 of the 83 set reprinted from DRAGON 55 (NOV 1981) page 17-19 and the makeup of language/race/alignment in DRAGON 52 (Aug 1981) page 18-24 The suel are everywhere genetically (except in Baklunish countries) and Suloise is spoken as a second language whereever there are scholars, sages, magic-users, illusionists and bards. |
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GT
Wizard
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Post by GT on Oct 12, 2009 13:01:25 GMT -5
I think that they would concentrate on the Flanaess first and save the Bakluni for later---unless you really want to push the Nazi parallels and have them start a two-front war! ^__^ Given their covert nature to date, I don't think they'd do that unless they were pretty well entrenched in the west...
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GT
Wizard
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Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Oct 12, 2009 13:06:03 GMT -5
"Promoting the loose idea that ancient Aerdi are somehow akin to Suel"
Yeah, that could be played up, too--like the "German = Aryan" stuff. I know that we're using a lot of Nazi-isms, but let's face it--the SB lends itself to that with its regimented ranks and "racial purity" ideals!
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Post by Scott on Oct 12, 2009 13:06:50 GMT -5
If someone popped out of the Everglades one day and declared himself the legitimate Kaiser of all the German peoples, would you recognize his authority?
It would be worse than that, I think, since there still is a Germany, and the Suloise Empire has been out of business for about a thousand years. It would be more like someone popping out of the Everglades and declaring himself the rightful king of the Franks.
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GT
Wizard
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Post by GT on Oct 12, 2009 13:12:14 GMT -5
Well, the SB seem to consider themselves the "Suel Kingdom in exile"; the keepers of the flame, as it were. It would be rather like the Mayan people of Central America suddenly uniting and rising up and saying "We haven't had an empire for nearly a millenium, but we're here now to take back what was ours!"
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Oct 12, 2009 13:20:18 GMT -5
To carry our parallels further: Nazis were able to take over Germany and then encroach upon nearby countries due to the instabilities in Europe post-WW I. Perhaps it is just such a thing that the SB awaits... When Gary and Rob last put out official WoG material, Nyrond was preparing to go to war with the Great Kingdom and Thrommel was missing from Furyondy and several other battles were about to erupt. Maybe the SB was helping to fan the conflicts and then would wait to move in on a battle-weary Flanaess?
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Post by Scott on Oct 12, 2009 13:25:57 GMT -5
Sure, I can see the SB doing that. I'm sure that's where they are heading, but what level of supprt would they recieve outside of the SB is what I am wondering.
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 12, 2009 13:26:01 GMT -5
Heh, you just made me notice something weird. Maybe the swamp locale was an allusion to Nazis in South America!  The whole NAZI schtick was definitely a viable and easily convicable parallel into popular culture however it has lost the value that it once had with wall to wall games in the game shops with the umpteenth tank game add-on and general popular culture featuring the "remnant NAZI" at least once in an adventure vehicle. So Suel at that angle has lost some lustre so perhaps with the trend towards "good Germans" in popular culture of the last decade or so maybe you can do a spin on that as well as add old shoes from the media and it'd seem fresher. |
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Post by Scott on Oct 12, 2009 13:28:30 GMT -5
To carry our parallels further: Nazis were able to take over Germany and then encroach upon nearby countries due to the instabilities in Europe post-WW I. Perhaps it is just such a thing that the SB awaits... When Gary and Rob last put out official WoG material, Nyrond was preparing to go to war with the Great Kingdom and Thrommel was missing from Furyondy and several other battles were about to erupt. Maybe the SB was helping to fan the conflicts and then would wait to move in on a battle-weary Flanaess? That seems like the best angle. It explains a lot, and leaves so many possibilities open. |
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Post by Scott on Oct 12, 2009 13:39:32 GMT -5
The Everglades was in place of the Vast Swamp.
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 12, 2009 13:44:37 GMT -5
And if Rauxes was Washington DC then I'd be living in... Bone March!??!? What th-... Wait a minute that does sound right... |
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Post by Scott on Oct 12, 2009 13:48:02 GMT -5
You're living in Rauxes, sort of. The old C&C would have New York as the capital of the original Great Kingdom. Can't say for sure if that's how Gary had his home map set up though.
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 12, 2009 13:53:27 GMT -5
So whats LG? Hommlet? Would that make the local Playboy club the TOEE? |
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