|
Post by GRWelsh on May 29, 2012 13:04:46 GMT -5
Anyone else excited to see this? This is the most enthusiastic I have been about a new movie in a long, long time. I love the original Alien movie, and Ridley Scott is one of my favorite directors, and I'm intrigued that he is tackling one of of the things fandom has been speculating about for decades: the "space jockey" (the pilot of the derelict craft where the xenomorph eggs were found). I want to see this the day it comes out, at an IMAX, in 3D.
I want some good science fiction, damnit!
Something that will offset "The Amazing Fuck with Spider-Man's Past" debacle that will be coming out later this summer...
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on May 31, 2012 14:45:11 GMT -5
Before I see Prometheus, let me post what my ideas were of the “Space Jockey.”
After I first saw the original Alien movie. I had the impression the “Space Jockey” pilot was just some poor unfortunate who was transporting the xenomorph eggs. The pilot was of an advanced species that looked elephantine and exoskeletal, only vaguely humanoid in the sense of having a head, two arms, and a torso. The reason he looked like he was growing out of his chair was that he was a sort of alien cyborg – an organic being actually wired into the pilot chair.
The pilot did not discover the xenomorph eggs, it was just his job to transport them. He was the equivalent of a space trucker for some non-human, extraterrestrial species, and therefore his role was analogous to the crew of the Nostromo.
The derelict landed on a planetoid in the Zeta Reticuli binary star system, 39 light years from earth. The reason the derelict hadn’t been discovered by the pilot’s own race is that he went so far off course when he was face-hugged, perhaps even to the wrong galaxy. The scales of distance involved are almost beyond human imagining.
The eggs were stored under the blue light, which was some kind of stasis field that preserved them and kept them in suspended animation. Somehow one of the eggs hatched and a facehugger infected the pilot causing him to go way off course and crash his ship on the Acheron planetoid. When he came to, the advanced bio-technology of his ship revealed to him that he was infected and that he was going to die. If he had any self-destruct mechanism for his ship, it was disabled from the crash. His last act was to send out a repeating warning signal. Then a chestburster emerged through his ribs and killed him. As there was no other life on Acheron, the newborn xenomorph eventually starved, died or went into hibernation in some other part of the derelict or planetoid. That's why there is no adult alien to attack the crew of the Nostromo when they arrive.
|
|
|
Post by Scott on May 31, 2012 15:21:51 GMT -5
I saw or read something about this recently. I was under the impression that this was a prequel to Alien, but now I don't think so. It was supposed to be originally, but it evolved into something else. It’s still set in the “Alien Universe”, but it’s not directly related to the Alien movie: “According to Scott, though the film shares "strands of Alien's DNA, so to speak", and takes place in the same universe, Prometheus will explore its own mythology and ideas.” I'm still excited to see it, though.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on May 31, 2012 15:48:09 GMT -5
I heard the same thing, and I was actually glad. Based on Scott's statements and the trailer, I take that to mean he is going to focus on the "Space Jockey" pilot race, but not necessarily the individual "Space Jockey" pilot we saw in the first Alien film. I'd rather see Prometheus be a movie that does its own thing and doesn't necessarily end exactly where Alien begins. It seems he is linking the "Space Jockey" species to the ancient astronauts concept a la Chariots of the Gods (i.e. this species visited earth in the distant past or even created us).
|
|
|
Post by grodog on Jun 1, 2012 13:16:38 GMT -5
Based on what I've seen from the previews, I'm really not understanding how Prometheus isn't a direct Alien prequel: it sure looks like it unabashedly sets up the first film, to me. I'm definitely curious about the Space Jockey (whom I've always associated with the Grenadier elephant raskshasa miniature: dndlead.com/Grenadier/ADandD/101.jpg ), but also at least as much if not moreso about the WY corporation, and the rest of the "backdrop" of cyber-pun-ish corporate politics/governance (the Aliens Space Marines Technical Manual hinted at a lot of back-end, cross-corporation politicking going on....).
|
|
|
Post by amalric on Jun 7, 2012 9:45:14 GMT -5
The Space Jockey always reminded of Yag Kosha, from REH's Tower of the Elephant, for some reason.
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Jun 9, 2012 21:46:46 GMT -5
I was planning on seeing it Friday night, but some protesters in town blocked the streets stopping traffic, including my bus, stranding me in town for a while. Some of my old players ended up coming over and we rolled up some characters and did some gaming.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Jun 10, 2012 11:11:48 GMT -5
I saw it on Friday in 3D IMAX with Eric, Cindy, Brian, Kate and Ray, and it was just a coincidence that Randy was there also, so we watched it with him. I thought it was great, but that it did have a few flaws, mainly with the script and plotting. The visuals were fantastic and the 3D IMAX really blew me away. The cast was good, and the guy who played the android stood out as the most interesting character. I don't want to spoil anything, so I'll leave it at that for now. My rating: not as good as the first two Alien movies, but better than all the others. I have to love a sci-fi movie that dares to be this ambitious. I see now what Ridley Scott meant by saying this isn't exactly a prequel, and I'm glad this movie is exploring in a new direction rather than just being 'Alien 5.'
|
|
|
Post by grodog on Jun 12, 2012 11:36:43 GMT -5
We saw it on Sunday night to close out the NTX RPG Con, and I enjoyed it, but it left all sorts of Qs unanswered, and also changed some things that didn't align to Alien well. I'll be curious to see how it does on my second viewing I contend even moreso that this is a direct prequel to Alien and that the "not really a prequel stuff" makes even less sense to me now that I've seen the film!
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Aug 18, 2012 15:04:43 GMT -5
I didn't see this (as the kids want to see everything that I see at the movies these days and it looked like a nightmare-fest.) but I really wanted to. The reactions from associates are that I'm going to love it.
Heh.
I might have said this story before, when I was young, I had a "movie poster magazine fold out" from the movie ALIEN and prior to seeing the movie a month later I thought it was fine and hung it by my bed. Sometimes, years before seeing ALIEN I'd suffer chronic stomach aches I was big on eating meat as a kid and would get a lot of gas. When I saw the movie it got worse. I came home to that poster of what they call the "space jockey" and that night and as the days rolled by it sickened me looking at it so much over the weeks that I tore it down. Definitely something psychosomatic was going on. The Alien sequel actually did nothing for me "terror-wise' but I still liked it.
I might still have the poster-magazine mixed in my comics but I doubt it.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 19, 2012 14:10:52 GMT -5
I heard that there are two sequel movies greenlit for PROMETHEUS. The next one is supposed to be titled PARADISE. I am glad to hear this, because although PROMETHEUS was flawed -- I still think it is one of the most ambitious and far-reaching SF movies in a long time.* I'm intrigued: I suppose Shaw will have to make it to the Engineer homeworld, which must translate as "Paradise." Obviously, they can't kill her as soon as she arrives in their airspace, as there would then be no movie. Perhaps she introduces evil (black goo) into "Paradise" and DESTROYS PARADISE and that explains (in the context of the "Alien" universe) why we never see any living Engineers in the future!
So, what will the third movie be called? My guess would be EREBUS or TARTERUS, with HADES, GEHENNA and PROTEUS as runner-ups. Oh, I forgot one...
Wasn't the original name of the planetoid LV-426... ACHERON!?!
Leviticus 4:26 And all its fat he shall burn on the altar, like the fat of the sacrifice of peace offerings. So the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin, and he shall be forgiven.
*I am one of those viewers who will give a movie 2 stars just for being ambitious... Add another 2 stars for production value and fantastic visualization, but subtract a star for unrealistic character actions and a script that should have been better. So, on a four star system I give it three stars.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 19, 2012 14:23:21 GMT -5
***SPOILERS***
My guess is that the Engineer species is currently somehow in a "fallen" state. I keep thinking of how the Engineer in the prelude -- including the aged Engineers from the deleted prelude -- have a different look to them. They look natural, with simple garments. Jedi Engineers? They seem to be religious, as if performing a ceremony, and to have some ethic of self-sacrifice... the 'sacrifice engineer' gives up his own life to seed life on another planet (earth). This is after he drinks the 'sacred' substance.
The Engineers that the humans encounter, thousands or even millions of years later, have a definite bio-mechanical look, even unclothed. The Engineer who is awakened appears unclothed, yet partly mechanical. These Engineers seem to have developed a super-weapon, the black goo, which corrupts and destroys everything it comes into contact with -- including them. The black goo is like the essence of evil, or sin -- but wasn't always so -- it is somehow linked to whatever the 'sacrifice Engineer' drank in the Prelude.
Considering all of the Christian symbolism, it is tempting to think that somehow "sin" will be introduced into "Paradise" in the next movie!
Leviticus 22:3 – For the generations to come, if any of your descendants is ceremonially unclean and yet comes near the sacred offerings… that person must be cut off from my presence. I am the Lord.
Ah, that's it!
When the Engineers become 'unclean' and come near the 'sacred offerings' (black goo) they become 'cut off' in the sense of the 'sacred' substance creating horror instead of anything benevolent or useful! They've lost control of their own creation!
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Nov 19, 2012 15:15:22 GMT -5
I just read a little about it. I guess Paradise was what Ridley wanted as the title for Prometheus. He says there will be some 'god' type figure in there somewhere, whose not really good, and not really god.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 19, 2012 15:53:32 GMT -5
Well, that's a theme of space theology worth exploring, right? Maybe there is a god, in the sense of a creator of life, a really powerful being, who sometimes intercedes in and judges and destroys its creations... But that doesn't make it omnibenevolent, or omnipotent, or omniscient, or the god of classical Western theism, necessarily.
That is an interesting theme to me: what if the divine happenings in the Bible have an origin with some god-like race interceding on earth, but the concept of God has evolved among humanity to be something that never was?
You better get right with Space Jesus, because judgment is coming... and within this very generation!
Well, that was the plan, anyway!
But 'judgment' never got moving off of LV-223, over two thousand years ago...
Except for one horseshoe-juggernaut ship that crashed on LV-426.
Lucky us!
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 19, 2012 16:05:08 GMT -5
I think that might be the theme of the next two movies: humanity was about to be judged and destroyed, two thousand years ago. But it didn't happen, due to the War in Heaven. Due to the 'fallen' state of some of the Engineers their 'sacred' goo turned against them!
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Nov 19, 2012 17:16:08 GMT -5
Religious connotations, thats what I thought it was going to have more of.
PROMETHEUS is like someone picked up a coffee table art book featuring the Milton-inspired artwork of William Blake, watched the original ALIEN (1979) the night before with the extra footage, dropped a whole sheet of blotter acid then vividly dreamed of this movie.
It seems grounded in all the ALIEN movies, at least moreso than I originally thought it was going to be.
Overall it was a great departure from that ALIENS VERSUS PREDATOR II black hole they've created and way better than PREDATORS which I thought wasn't too bad.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 19, 2012 20:13:14 GMT -5
I thought there were plenty of religious connotations...
The opening scene is the old "life from the body of the dead god" motif that is present in many religions. Shaw's faith and cross was very prevalent, of course. There was a Christmas tree on the ship. There were philosophical discussions about "well if they made us, who made them?" The Engineer buildings were megalithic structures reminiscent of pyramids or ziggurats. There was the huge Easter Island-like Engineer head, and a place that looked like a temple filled with urns. There was that bas-relief images that looked like a crucified xenomorph. The Engineer cryosleep chambers looked like sarcophagi. The list goes on and on.
You are spot on with the Milton/Blake connection. I read that Scott told the art director to look at Blake paintings, Michelangelo's David, and the Statue of Liberty, the classical dimensions of sculpture and Greco-Roman gods, as inspiration for the Engineer designs. Milton's PARADISE LOST was such an influence on the idea that an earlier working title for the movie was actually PARADISE. So, we might guess that this series is going to be about a War in Heaven.
I didn't mind the Predator movies, on their own, but I hated putting them in the same universe as the Alien. The Predator isn't worthy of being in the same universe as the Alien movies, as far as I'm concerned. The Predator is just a big Rostafarian harelip in armor. I don't consider those AvP movies to be part of the Alien series, but just their own thing, like a "What if?" or Elseworlds scenario.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Nov 19, 2012 22:59:57 GMT -5
Back in the day, I had read the novelization of ALIEN based on the original screenplay and it had featured that extra scene featured on the laserdisc with the captain Dallas saying kill me and Brett looking like he was morphing into something else like one of the eggs. I think I still have the novel but it must be in a box somewhere. That scene made me think twice about the ALIENS version of the creature's "Queen" and this PROMETHEUS version not only confirms the original concept but it goes way beyond it.
What were those poles that seemed laid out like the eggs?
Why was that snake with the wedge-shaped head seem like something I've seen years ago?
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 20, 2012 9:11:54 GMT -5
The novelization was by Alan Dean Foster, and I didn't read it. From what I have read about it, I guess it omitted the Space Jockey scene but did include the scene with Dallas either cocooned or morphing into an egg...
I think you're right, the original concept of the life cycle for the Alien was different, with the Alien seemingly turning some of its victims into eggs. I am not sure if Scott left this out of the theatrical release because of time constraints or if he decided he didn't like this concept. It is certainly more 'alien and weird' than the parasitic wasp concept of ALIENS... which I liked, but it is something we are familiar with because it has an analogy on earth.
Those poles that were laid out like eggs.. they were the urns with the black goo. That substance seems inert until 'activated' or 'disturbed' by the presence of life. That is the transformative substance that turns the earth-worms into the 'Hammerpedes' which is the nickname for those wedge-shaped snake-like things.
|
|
|
Post by grodog on Nov 20, 2012 10:46:04 GMT -5
In the ADF novel, there was also a sub-theme of dreaming, and he called out dreamers as a particular class or career or type of person: Ripley was a stronger/better dreamer than most, but not as strong as a "true" dreamer IIRC. Much of the dreaming was focused on while in hypersleep, but it also speaks to the nightmares that Ripley has in Aliens as well.
The idea of the dreams of Shaw and Holloway to find and contact the engineers resonates now that I think about it more, as well as scenes where David was spying on Shaw's dreams during hypersleep. And all of that may related to humanity's own collective dreams of godhood and creators, perhaps....
|
|