|
Post by Scott on Nov 23, 2012 14:21:27 GMT -5
Oh yeah, TMNT was another one I liked. But I don't kow how it would hold up if I read it now.
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Nov 23, 2012 14:28:43 GMT -5
I don't remember Starslayer, but Groo was one of my regular reads.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Nov 23, 2012 14:40:36 GMT -5
Speaking of comics, did you read the Dark Horse ALIENS comics? It wasn't bad at the time but in retrospect they could have been much, much better. The first mini-series had the space jockey as a straight out of ALIEN version (malevolent elephant race who was waylaid by the creatures) which of course was rather flat compared to the PROMETHEUS versions.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Nov 23, 2012 14:49:47 GMT -5
I don't remember Starslayer, but Groo was one of my regular reads. This movie that my brother did was 1984 and featured a lot of people who D&Ded in the area at the time. Boy, do I wish that it wasn't lost or taped over. I've got to ask my friend Taylor if he remembers it. He'll probably recoil in horror at his part because I absolutely remembered him being there along side me! It was titled GROO & THE QUEST FOR THE CHEESE DIP and I remember rude sword fights and rubber masks being the meat of it.
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Nov 23, 2012 14:58:11 GMT -5
Yeah, I remember the Aliens comics. It was one of the titles that helped push Dark Horse above the other indies. I don't have much recollection of the stories though.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Nov 23, 2012 15:18:10 GMT -5
Yeah, I remember the Aliens comics. It was one of the titles that helped push Dark Horse above the other indies. I don't have much recollection of the stories though. It was Newt and Hicks as the protagonist and a few years later in ALIEN3 (1992) in the movies they killed them off. I think the comic was 1988 and then they compiled it into a paperback in 1991. What was the PREDATOR one? Dutch's cop brother in New York City which seemed to have inspired PREDATOR 2 but I'm not sure. It was 4 comics in 1989 and PREDATOR 2 came out the following year in 1990 which made me think this.
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Nov 23, 2012 15:35:17 GMT -5
Yeah, the success of the Alien comics led to a lot of other stuff. Predator, and the first Alien Vs. Predator set up. I remember the story now that you mention Newt. They actually changed the names is newer prints so the comic wouldn't conflict with Alien 3.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Nov 23, 2012 15:45:05 GMT -5
Those things were so hot you had to get them as soon as they were put on the shelf or they were gone.
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Nov 23, 2012 15:51:06 GMT -5
That was one of the benefits of working at the comic book shop.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Nov 23, 2012 17:04:50 GMT -5
In NYC I recall someof those "books piled in a store the size of a closet" unlabeled comic book stores of the 70's.
Now thats shit I haven't seen since.
The one that was in NW Connecticut where I moved in 83 that we all went to was in Torrington called "MY MOTHER THREW MINE AWAY" it was a big step down from some of the bigger ones in the city I was used to like "FORBIDDEN PLANET" on Broadway or even "METROPOLITAN COMICS" on 23rd or "ACTION COMICS" on the upper east side. The interesting thing about the city shops was that they had flyers with on-going comic stories and you could catch "name" artists and writers just popping in. I remember Mike Zeck had made the subway advertisement for ACTION COMICS before he was well known. Its totally different now. FP is outrageously overpriced and so is the one by the Empire State Building (Hanley's Universe?). Actually its been so long since I visited (3rd edition D&D?) that I don't even know if they're still there.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 23, 2012 19:30:05 GMT -5
Speaking of comics, did you read the Dark Horse ALIENS comics? It wasn't bad at the time but in retrospect they could have been much, much better. The first mini-series had the space jockey as a straight out of ALIEN version (malevolent elephant race who was waylaid by the creatures) which of course was rather flat compared to the PROMETHEUS versions. I remember the ALIENS comics, and yeah they did have the "Space Jockey" in there as an elephantine race with telepathy. The more I look at the original Giger set from the first movie, the more appropriate I think it is to make them inhuman rather than humans wearing helments and bio-suits. The Space Jockey in ALIEN, if it stood up, would be about 26' tall. The eye-holes are for the most part on the side of the head, indicating an evolved prey-species lacking stereoscopic vision. A human wouldn't be able to look directly forward while wearing such a helmet. In an earlier script idea by Dan O'Bannon, the original writer, the Space Jockey's ship had crashed on planetoid LV-426 "Acheron" millions of years ago and had been dragged to the top of a pyramidal structure, and the temple was supposed to have the alien eggs in it. So, in the original idea, the Space Jockey race just stumbled across these dormant alien eggs -- didn't make them. The Space Jockey was just an innocent victim, like the humans of the Nostromo. But for budget and story telling reasons the temple was scrapped, and so we were left with a more ambiguous background. From an internet source here: aliens.wikia.com/wiki/Mala'kak A lesser-known history of the Space Jockey's race comes from an older source than the DVDs. According to "The Alien Portfolio" by John Mollo and Ron Cobb, Cobb tells of Alien creator Dan O'Bannon's backstory where the Jockey's race had simply landed on the planet on a course of exploration and had encountered the eggs there. Since the planet was dying, and they didn't realize how dangerous the eggs were, they loaded their cargo hold with the eggs and prepared to lift off. Before they were to take off, one of the crew was parasitized and "gave birth" to an alien. The crew eventually killed the alien, but at the cost of hulling their ship. As they were dying out, one of them had set up a transmission warning other ships not to land there and suffer the same fate.
This is mentioned in the novelization of Alien by Alan Dean Foster, during the scene where Ash was telling Ripley, Lambert and Parker about their chances against the alien. Out of all sources, the Portfolio is the only one connected to the film that gives a complete series of events describing the derelict's encounter with the aliens. Of course, PROMETHEUS has swept all of this right out the door...
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Nov 23, 2012 23:10:00 GMT -5
You know something? I still can't believe Pinback wrote ALIEN!
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 26, 2012 9:10:16 GMT -5
I watched the Blu-Ray PROMETHEUS with extras over the weekend. They should have left the deleted scenes in because they explained so much and were better all around. The Engineer speaks in a deleted scene, and although it still isn't completely clear why he went berserk on them, the context is that it seems to be about the arrogance of Weyland asking for, or even demanding, more life.
About six minutes into the first extras documentary, "The Furious Gods," there are some tantalizing shots of a paper titled MASTER NARRATIVE and ENGINEERS: THE VERGE OF GODHOOD as well as some other script pages and when you freeze them you can glean some details. The Engineers have a civilization that is millions of years old. The individuals each live for a hundred thousand years or more. There are no female Engineers evident because the Engineers are sexless. Ages ago, they stopped reproducing sexually, and began reproducing by more abstract means. In the past few thousand years, they have stopped reproducing altogether. The Engineers can see and sense things we cannot -- in other dimensions -- and so while their structures appear dark and grim to us, they see something different. They believe they are on the verge of transcending to a non-physical existence in the ten dimensions. There is something about sherpherding humans along, and hoping humans might be able to follow in their footsteps, but those parts are incomplete or cut off.
The prologue with the 'sacrifice Engineer' happened in 12,000 BC.
This seems to be from the original treatment from Jon Spaihts, so it is possible all of the above is just an early draft or was scrapped or changed once Damon Lindelof was brought on board.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 26, 2012 9:32:44 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Nov 26, 2012 11:15:55 GMT -5
It says its removed for copyright reasons.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 26, 2012 12:02:47 GMT -5
It says its removed for copyright reasons. Darn. I'll have to look for a copy of it when I'm not on my work computer.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 26, 2012 20:33:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 26, 2012 20:39:57 GMT -5
This is from prometheus-movie.com:
Jon Spaihts Prometheus Script Analysis Posted By: Chris
Posted: Nov-15-2012 8:44 PM
Tags: Prometheus, Movie, Script, Jon Spaihts, Analysis
After having Prometheus' Co-Writer, Jon Spaihts confirm to us via Twitter the other day that the leaked script we received entitled Alien: Engineers was in fact authentic, I figured it was now time to break this script down and compare it to the final product which we all saw back in June on the big screen. This is not a review, but an analysis and comparison of what Prometheus Could Have Been if Ridley Scott had gone ahead with Jon's script instead of bringing in Damon Lindelof to assist in the writing process.
The scirpt starts off depicting vast scenery images, like what we saw in the opening scenes of Prometheus, with a hovering space craft travelling across the landscape. We then see the Sacrificial Engineer open a container filled with Alien technology which breaks down his body - seading the planet.
We are then introduced to two Characters, Holloway and Watts(Who was changed to Elizabeth Shaw) who discover star maps on ancient cave paintings and ruins which lead them to devise a theory that Aliens engineered us and visited us every few thousand years to upgrade us, our world and our technology.
Now, some differences: In Jon's script, instead of "Black Goo" being the transforming substance which the Engineer drinks, they're small Scarabs (beetles) which bite the Engineer, infecting him with DNA altering venom. The process of decomposition is relatively the same as what we see in the film however. Also, the two archaeologists discover their final star map underwater rather than in a mountain off the Isle of Skye.
Following this, we fast forward a bit to a scene which takes place in space, on a Weyland Space Station, orbiting the Earth. "Weyland's Wheel" is what it's referred to as, as it looks like a wheel. Here, there's some dialogue between Weyland, Vickers, David, Holloway and Watts/Shaw. In this scene, we also read of imagery depicting the Weyland station, and insight to the company's achievements in terraforming other planets.
In Spaihts' draft, ALIEN: Engineers, the Weyland vessel which they use to transport themselves to the Zeta 2 Reticuli system is called the USCSS Magellan, and the moon they discover Alien artifacts and land on is not LV_223, but LV_426 - yes, the same planet the Nostromo touches down on in ALIEN and the same planet that James Cameron's ALIENS takes place on. There is also an extended scene where the Magellan scans the nearby planets and moons, before deciding on LV_426, because they discover un-natural formations and mineral clusters across the planet's surface.
These clusters are later discovered as giant pyramids, much like what we saw in Prometheus, but the pyramids in Jon's script were more metallic than stone by description.
The crew venture into the pyramid structure and just like in Prometheus, a deadly storm begins to advance on the crew's location and everyone is ordered back to the ship. In Spaihts' script, Fifield and Milburn again, are left behind to wait out the storm, but there's a bit more depth into why they got lost - each thought the other had the map.
Also, prior to leaving, Holloway and Watts discover a pile of dead Engineers, much like what we see in Prometheus' final cut, but the difference here, is Holloway gets lost, wandering down a hallway and falling down a shaft. We later find out that he fell into a chamber full of Alien eggs, and his helmet was smashed. Watts and David find Holloway and take him back aboard the ship.
Fifield and Milburn however, wander around the pyramid, evidently getting lost like what we saw in the final cut of Prometheus and yes, Milburn stumbles upon the Hammerpede, which wraps itself around his arm, crushing it. Similar to what we see in Prometheus, Milburn dies relatively the same way, but Fifield on the other hand finds himself being attacked by Scarabs - yes, the same kind of Scarabs we would have see in the beginning of the film, taking over the Sacrificial Engineer's body. The Scarabs eat through Fifield's helmet with bursts of acid, and once inside, inject him with their DNA altering venom.
At the same time, Shaw/Watts, gets caught in the storm after rescuing the severed Engineer head which they discover upon their initial venture to the pyramid structure. David, like in Prometheus rescues her and all is well.
Inside the ship, they scan the head and once the process of its decomposition begins to take effect, instead of the head exploding, in Jon's script, the crew place the head in a jar of preservative, preventing it from exploding, so they may run tests on it later on.
After the storm passes, the crew go back to the pyramid to find Fifield and Milburn. It doesn't take them long, and they discover a dead and mutilated Milburn corpse, but no sign of Fifield.
The plot moves a long much like what we see in the final cut of Prometheus, except Vickers and David are much more vocal about their intentions on the mission. Vickers makes it clear that once they discover Alien technology, their main priority is to extract it and take it back home to study it and advance their own technology. David gives off a much more "sinister" vibe in Spaihts' Prometheus script, than in Lindelof's, and that becomes very evident later on in the script.
Cutting back to the ship, after the second recon mission has been completed Watts/Shaw and Holloway take part in some festivities in their room, which leads to Holloway experiencing some horrific discomfort. Instead of Holloway getting infected by the Black Goo via David, and getting torched by Vickers in Linddelof's draft, in Jon's script, Holloway actually gives birth to an octopus-like Chestburster which then gets loose on the ship.
This is where the story really picks up. We then learn that David has found a hatchery under the pyramid, where instead of "URNS with Black Goo", the Engineers were engineering creatures, designed to kill Humans, and planned to take them to Earth, but because they made their creations "too well", and because the Engineers shared many same characteristics as Humans, their creation turned on them and killed them all... all except for one.
David actually impregnate Shaw/Watts, by holding her down while a Facehugger crawls out of its egg and latches onto her face.
In this scene, we learn that there were many different types of Aliens/Facehuggers, the one that impregnated Holloway was like an Octopus, with no bones, yet still very strong. But the one that impregnates Shaw/Watts was boney, and armoured, like the classic Facehugger we see in ALIEN. Shaw/Watts later awakens to a dead facehugger lying beside her and a red ring around her neck - we all know what that means. She manages to escape David and get back to the ship where she frantically goes into the Med Pod and removes the grotesque Chestburster which was gestating inside her. In this scene, Shaw/Watts passes out during the recover procedure, and her Alien baby grows up quite rapidly and kills one of the Weyland Security officers on board, in Vickers' suite. Shaw watches as it kills the officer and then begins feeding on him.
After awakening a third time inside the MedPod, as the MedPod doors open, Shaw manages to slowly and quietly, escape and grab the officer's gun, pumping a full clip into the Alien, causing it to die and drench the floor in acid, which eventually melts through a couple levels of the ship as it falls through.
At the same time, whatever Holloway gave birth to is killing people inside the Magellan, and only a few are left breathing.
Fifield is also later discovered as a disfigured Alien, and he kills a few people as well.
Shaw/Watts, Vickers and a security officer venture back to the Pyramid to stop David from awakening the Engineer and flying the ship full of Alien eggs to Earth. As you can imagine, they're too late and David awakens the Engineer only to have his head ripped off.
I forgot to mention earlier, that an interesting addition to this script was the Vision of the Gods. Shaw had one of the crew actually extract the Engineer's eye lense and equip them to a pair of goggles, allowing Shaw to essentially "see the way an Engineer would see" - which is described as very "bright". Engineers can apparently see living organisms through solid surfaces, they can see an ora around them, like a glowing outline. It was interesting to imagine what this could have looked like, had it been added to the film. But, this allowed Shaw to witness more of the spectacles which were present in the Orrey room as the Engineer started up the Juggernaut.
In Jon's script we also see the Engineer kill an Alien, which had been born from the character Chance earlier in the plot, by grabbing it around the neck and snapping it in two. The sheer power of the Engineer is shown in Spaiht's draft and what a scene it would have made!
As the Engineer kills everyone but Shaw, Shaw escapes and the Engineer fires up the Juggernaut, en route to Earth. But something goes wrong and as the ship ascends, the Engineer gives birth to a massive Chesburster, causing the ship to crash land back on LV_426. From this, spanws the "Ultramorph", a massive Alien.
Back on the Magellan, Janek gets killed by this Ultramorph, and Shaw runs and hides from it, barely being caught. The Ultramorph locates the Engineer head, which has been sitting in preservative and begins to feed on it.
Shaw makes a little noise after finding a chainsaw, which she hopes to use to kill the Ultramorph, but the Ultramorph finds her. In a quick move, Shaw swings the chainsaw, cutting off one of the Ultramorph's hands, but the Ultramorph manages to pin her down with a large spike on the end of its tail, leaving Shaw just out of reach of the chainsaw. She eventually manages to slide herself far enough up to grab it and slices the Ultramorph's head off, sending acid everywhere. At this point, as the acid begins to corrode her space suit, Shaw/Watts has to move quickly to get out of her space suit, before the acid burns through it. She manages to get out of it in time, but is left standing, with no helmet, in the toxic air of LV_426. Thankfully, she gets to Vickers' suite and grabs a fresh suit.
She later meets up with David, who has all of a sudden changed his ways from being evil and sinister to hopeful that Shaw will rebuild him, but the film ends with the pyramids lighting up, almost like a beacon, insinuating that more Engineers will come to investigate what happened.
I really enjoyed reading the script myself. I think a lot of the ALIEN aspects Spaihts introduced in his script would do very well in the sequel to Prometheus.
Let us know what you thought of the script if you had the chance to read it in the Prometheus Movie Forums. You can also find many discussions about this script and its plot in the forums by various fans.
Thanks to Jon Spaihts for authenticating the script for us, it was a great read!
|
|
|
Post by grodog on Nov 27, 2012 0:20:18 GMT -5
Very cool, thanks for the pointers, Gary
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Nov 27, 2012 12:43:12 GMT -5
One of the problems with Spaiht's script is that if there are these huge metallic pyramids on LV-426, wouldn't the terraformers of ALIENS have noticed them? That would have been an inconsistency, I think, or at least hard to explain away. But I do admire Spaiht's efforts to work in some of the ideas from O'Bannon's original script, and I think that is what he was trying to do here. As a side note, wasn't there a deleted scene from ALIENS with the terraformer colonists exploring the Juggernaut derelict? Why wouldn't they have explored it before terraforming and colonizing the planetoid? And what ever happened to the beacon signal from ALIEN -- was that ever addressed in ALIENS? I found these answers on the Prometheus-Movie site in the forums, but I'm not sure if they are all correct: Cameron explained that the ship had been damaged from a volcanic eruption thus also damaging the warning beacon. Newt's mum and pappy enter the ship from a hole made by the eruption. No signal. Info about the original Nostromo disaster hidden and over time The Company had forgotten about the ship's existence until Ripley.
|
|