Eriador Type Setting

[Scott]

Any thoughts on an Eriador-esque setting to start a campaign? A region with no real active kingdoms. No settlements much larger than a town. A few small demi-human settlements. In the past the area was part of as grand kingdom, and ruins from that time dot the landscape.
Developing such a setting sounds appealing at the moment. Starting with an East Mark size chuck of land, but the primary ‘town’ would be something smaller, Hommlet size perhaps, or maybe as large as Bree.

[geneweigel]

(I tried to talk about this yesterday and I got so distracted with driving chores all day long. Remembering the days when I let my license expire from 1988 to 2002. Fucking heaven. I think I might let it go again... )

What do you mean? Quiet unless disturbed?

[GRWelsh]

Yes, I like that sort of a setting. I once wrote notes on a setting that had a powerful kingdom that was destroyed by dragons. It turned into a wilderness, and most of the men living there now don't know much about the ancient kingdom except there are ruins in the area. Their settlements are like frontier towns. I had envisioned the powerful kingdom as having both knights and wizards protecting it, which explains the magic weapons, armor, m-u scrolls, etc. that can be found in the ruins and dungeons. It also explains why there are so many ruins and dungeons all over the place.

I have always thought of this sort of thing as the "default D&D" setting, which generally has to explain three things:

1. Why there are so many dungeons and ruins.
2. Why is there so much treasure in these dungeons.
3. Why no one has picked up the treasure prior to the PC's.

Eriador would be perfect because you have all of these ancient Arnorian ruins, and things like barrows with treasure guarded by barrow-wights. Who knows what you could find in the ruined cities and fortifications of Arthedain, Rhudaur and Cardolan? The Arnorians had things like palantiri and Westernesse blades, so they evidently had 'craft' equivalent to magic in D&D terms -- or at least the ancient Numenoreans did. Also, it would be possible to find treasure from elven kingdoms even as far back as ancient Beleriand, the way Bilbo, Gandalf and the dwarves found Orcrist, Glamdring and Sting in the troll's cave west of Rivendell.

[geneweigel]

I like the atmosphere of that sector of Middle Earth and think that is firmly rooted in my campaigns but its mostly through the eyes of naive NPCs giving local color. For example, I give that feel to the rustic hobbit-ish types as npcs while players who make halflings are not obligated to preserve any milieu and could be the most urban or seafaring halflings as far as I care.

[GRWelsh]

The first setting I ever came up with as a DM was not very original. I read The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion in the same year I started playing D&D. I also was very impressed with the TSR game "Divine Right" -- the map moreso than the game itself. So, my first D&D world map ended up looking like a mash-up of those two, with some names swiped or slightly altered.

Genordor was in the Northwest, and was my version of Eriador where most of the player characters started out.

[geneweigel]

Heh, my Tolkien knowledge in the beginning wasn't that great.

When I moved to Connecticut 1983 and at the high school I immediately hooked up with a "cool kid" in my homeroom who liked D&D and he was rejected by the D&D majority at the school for not being wise to certain series (Tolkien, Xanth, Thomas Covenant, Deryni, Myth Adventures, etc). One of the big DMs of that arena of thought just hated the air that I breathed. One day I recited the ring inscription in the Black Speech to my growing "unorthodox acolytes" and he went into this tirade on the spot that I was illiterate. And that I "only pretended to read the LOTR trilogy" (his words) because I couldn't answer his obscure trivia questions (Beren & Luthien, Melkor/Morgoth, etc.). This is the same kid was the one who absolutely refused to take my artwork for free but routinely wanted it for his game sessions. So I definitely was into the spirit of it over minutiae back then.

I'd say the feeling of the first half of the Hobbit and the book of Lord of the Rings definitely left an indelible mark that was assumed in the shared nature of play. I distinctly recall "Bree" being assumed to be somewhere but in the same breath things like "Lankhmar" and "Zamora" on some Southern shore.

So I think this line of thinking extended over into my revived old campaign so in that light I put Keep on the Borderlands in the middle of "Eriador". It still dosn't feel right because I never had a "Pomarj" type "orc land" of my own after Gary's suggested placement.

[Scott]

So my idea is to pick an area within this territory, and so something like the East Mark. A sandbox setting. Detail the main settlement, a few lesser settlements, and several dungeon and wilderness areas for the neophytes to explore. First task would be the primary settlement, and then two adventure areas for the PCs to choose from. I like a Hommlet size place, because it's easy, but something up to Bree, the larger would offer more urban adventure opportunities. Any thoughts on the first settlement?

[geneweigel]

The ideal would be not a land where shit comes blazing out when you throw a dead body in the bushes. So with that in mind how is that going to happen? It's the old wall of believability. How about no charter? A basically "you're on your own" deal so everything can have a freedom to it.

On an aside my countries are very anti-Hyborian as they reject medieval structure (that Hyboria has) for rude and senseless governing as if any reflection of civilization has not been invented yet.

[Scott]

Well, like Eriador had the rangers as sort of watchers and protectors, this setting would have something secret like that, but there aren't really any countries. Just a scattering of independent towns, villages, etc. and a few demi-human settlements. The PCs may know some rumors, or they may learn them in the base town, and then they decide what they want to do. The PCs have the freedom to do whatever they want.

[geneweigel]

The only thing to avoid would be the heavy hand of a Forgotten Realms type "you're saved by a unbuyable millionaire's mercenary company and/or name world-spanning NPC". I would have lesser "rangers" to kill the notion that somebody was going to save them.

[Scott]

They shouldn't be involved at this stage. Maybe later, if you place a "module" in the setting, they could be a blip in the background, the rangers in the Dark Druids background, for example. Nothing more.

[GRWelsh]

Jun 9, 2013 14:29:55 GMT -5 Scott said:

Any thoughts on the first settlement?

I have always liked the idea of a "bandit town" which essentially has the feel of the steretypical Wild West frontier town. Not a completely evil place, but also not totally safe and secure. Maybe the equivalent of Tharbad in Middle Earth, or Sanctuary in Thieves' World.

[GRWelsh]

Jun 9, 2013 17:15:20 GMT -5 Scott said:

Well, like Eriador had the rangers as sort of watchers and protectors, this setting would have something secret like that, but there aren't really any countries.

The rangers were one of the most distinct elements of Eriador. They are competent, but I wouldn't necessarily see them as high and mighty NPC's who always save the party, the way Strider saved the hobbits. I like the way they are treated in the Lord of the Rings Online game. Once you meet some of them, they often provide adventure hooks and usually you are helping them more than they are helping you.

Some of my favorite settings in the LOTRO game are non-canonical. In the North Downs, east of Fornost and north of Bree, is the ruined Arnorian town of Esteldin. Amidst the stone structures, the Rangers have tents and camps. They live like this among the great structures of their ancestors, and know much of the history of Arnor and Middle Earth. They guard the ruins against thieves and tomb-robbers. It is sad that the Dunedain of the north are so reduced in number and living in such a low state. As a player, you get to go on various quests and errands to help them out.

The worst part of LOTRO is the repetitive grind common to most MMORGs. But the best part of it is seeing areas of Middle Earth brought impressively to 3D life, including the areas I've always wondered how I would develop myself. "I wonder what the rest of Eriador is like? Where do the Rangers live? What would you find if you went to places like Fornost and the North Downs and Carn Dûm?" -- that sort of thing.

[Scott]

That's how I would use them. They may be the source of rumors the party hears, or something like that, they wouldn't be saving the day.

[Scott]

One of my problems with the way the Castle Zagyg project unfolded was the time that was spent designing Yggsburgh. That was a lot of time and effort for what was really nobody's primary forcus. I think I would rather develop a smaller base of operations initially, and then maybe expand with a more town specific supplement.

[GRWelsh]

It also depends on how much detail you want to put into the base setting. Hommlet has far more detail than you will ever use, unless your players are intent on looting every single house and cottage. I'll bet you could write ten pages of description, NPC's and so on that would adequately cover a Bree-sized town. Mostly, you just have to answer the typical player questions:

• What inns are in this town?
  
• Where can I buy armor and equipment?
  
• Where can I sell these gems and jewelry?
  
• Does this town have a wizard?
  
• Are there any temples or churches in this town, and what gods do they worship?
  
• Are there lots of guards around, and how strict is the law in this town?
  
  
  

[Scott]

What's funny about Gary and the detail he put into those things is that Rob said, as a player, Gary had no interest in that stuff. Rob said that Gary didn't even know the name of the village where his PCs started in.

[Scott]

I like Gary's approach of always making the PCs from somewhere else. The Keep, Hommlet, and Yggsburgh all assume that the PCs aren't from there, and they'll have to do some exploring to get to know their way around.

[geneweigel]

Jun 10, 2013 10:17:30 GMT -5 Scott said:

One of my problems with the way the Castle Zagyg project unfolded was the time that was spent designing Yggsburgh. That was a lot of time and effort for what was really nobody's primary forcus. I think I would rather develop a smaller base of operations initially, and then maybe expand with a more town specific supplement.

I think in retrospect, that CZ was a waste and best forgotten. Every time that I pull it out is stomach churning. Was it deliberate? Etc., etc.

That said, a good base is a good base but how to make it Tolkien-ized and D&D seems to be the issue.

[geneweigel]

Jun 10, 2013 11:53:44 GMT -5 Scott said:

What's funny about Gary and the detail he put into those things is that Rob said, as a player, Gary had no interest in that stuff. Rob said that Gary didn't even know the name of the village where his PCs started in.

I think thats one way to look at it but it might seem the opposite from a different perspective. Like for instance Gary had interest in tangible things and fleshing out by default while Rob was into fleshing out however with less authorative tangibility.