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Post by geneweigel on Nov 3, 2012 18:10:21 GMT -5
As an aside, Terry Kuntz without saying a single word seems to have the most D&D mystique of any individual anywhere.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Jan 30, 2018 9:57:35 GMT -5
I found some (41) but you'll be hard pressed to find anything in there ( I NOTED SOME GUESSES IN RED bASED ON NYR DYV BEING PRESENT BACK THEN WHICH WERE SOURCES OF NYROND AND DYVERS (DYVOND?)): Membership and Precedence List (per issue #7, Sep 1970): 1 Rob Kuntz (King) 2 Gary Gygax (Steward, Earl Palatine, OMSC) 3 Bill Linden (Lord Price of Arms, Viscount, OMS) 4 Jeff Perren (Viscount, OMS, Mercenary Captain, OH) PERRENLAND or rather PERROND5 Christopher Schleicher (Chief Scrivner, Viscount) 6 Terry Kuntz (Chamberlain, Baron, OMS) 7 Dave Arneson (Pursuivant, Baron) BLACKMOOR or rather BOOGERLAND (Just kidding!)8 Russell Tulp (Justicar, Baron) 9 Rick Crane (High Constable, Baron, OH) 10 Ken Scher (Baron) 11 Stephen A. Thomas Jr. (Baron) 12 Stefen Kwiatkowski (Baron, OH) 13 Tom Webster (OMS) 14 Harry Manogg (Herald, Kt.) 15 H. Axel Krigsman Jr. (Sheriff, Kt.) 16 Al Macintyre (Kt.) 17 Chris Johnson (Court Jester, Kt.) 18 Read Boles (Kt.) 19 Bill Hoyer (Kt.) 20 Paul Cote (Esq.) 21 Richard Locke (Esq.) 22 Sam Ferris (Esq.) FURYONDY or rather FERROND23 Duane Jenkins (Esq.) 24 Terry Stafford (Esq.) 25 Patrick Wilson (Gent.) 26 Bill Larson (Gent.) 27 John Bobek (Gent.) VERBOBONC28 George Kwiatkowski (Gent.) 29 Gerald Crane (Gent.) 30 Steve Umstead (Gent.) 31 Terry Winckler (Gent.) 32 Stuart Trembly (Gent.) 33 Tom Bray (Gent.) 34 Len Lakofka (Gent.) LENDOR or rather LENROND35 Charles Pasco (Gent.) 36 Tom Hazlett (Gent.) 37 Harley Anton (Gent.) 38 James Lurvey (Gent.) VELUNA or rather VELLOND39 Bill Belke (Gent.) 40 George Patton (Gent.) 41 Mike Gutierrez (Gent.) SOME OF THESE NAMES RING BELLS BUT IT COULD BE PARTIALS OR NICKNAMES LIKE "STEVE'S FOREST BY VELLONDI" translated as "STEVE'S VELLONDI FOREST = VE'S VE FOREST = VESVE FOREST"Does this Nyr Dyv = Nyrond + Dyvers indicate that the founder of the TOEE was from the noble line of Nyrond who established the great walled city of Dyvers, and that additionally a great monstrosity flowed into the Lake of Unknown Depths from the Velverdyva River as a source?
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 30, 2018 10:13:55 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you're saying.
Name origins that are known to me:
Nyrond and Dyvers is the source for Nyr Dyv.
Veluna, Verbobonc and Dyver is the source for Velverdyva.
Everything else is speculation on my part.
For example, "Keoland" could be either "Don Kaye's land" or "Tom Keogh's land" for all I know.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 30, 2018 10:38:44 GMT -5
I'm still not sure what came first. Nyr Dyv or Dyvers/Nyrond. It seems Nyr Dyv came first and that maybe Dyvers/Nyrond was just expansions. But again speculation, I tried to get Gary to tell me but it was a case of how much can he tell without being paid for it*.
(*There was a lot of anti-Gary sentiment going on in D&D land under Williams' ownership (1985-1999) which is still palpable to this day. Some of these "nostalgey" histories of D&D's creation got the stank of false, and pro-hostile takeover attitudes about Gary on it. There is a clear drive to pretend Arneson created and Gygax borrowed when its obvious its the other way around. Back in the 90's, it was this endless negativity clearly shouted "Greyhawk is ours now" that made him anxious to hold back to fix it someday. D&D and Greyhawk he called "his red wagon thats no longer mine". Even "Castle Zagyg" was a placeholder to eventually get back home to Greyhawk.)
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Jan 30, 2018 10:56:23 GMT -5
I'm trying to work back towards founding of the temple of elemental evil through the word play, to try to derive a more Gygaxian TOEE.
The temple is associated with Dyvers/Nyr Dyv.
Nyrond (and by extension Furyondy) and Dyvers is associated with Nyr Dyv.
The Velverdyva River, which flows into the Nyr Dyv, as you say is associated with Veluna, Verbobonc, and Dyvers.
Note that where the Velverdyva River comes from: Lake Quag in Perrenland through the Yatil Mountains.
It sure seems like Igwlf loosed some monstrosity that flowed down the Velverdyva River to the Nyr Dyv, and that monstrosity is tied to the temple of elemental evil? This {demonic?} monstrosity may be a tremendously feared foe of the Archclericy of Veluna & Viscount of Verbobonc {a foe of St. Cuthbert's}?
Also, the Nyrond/Furyondy/Dyvers connections need to be worked through. Who are sorcerers/mages in the noble line of Nyrond, Furyondy, and Dyvers? Sorcerors {demon-urges} and/or elementalists?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Jan 30, 2018 11:15:28 GMT -5
And riding across the surface of it all is the Rhennee, likely key in unlocking clues to the chaos below the surface...
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Jan 30, 2018 11:32:04 GMT -5
Ok, there it is...Zagig Yragrene is descendant of Ganz and the daughter of the Gynarch (Despotrix) of Hardby (a sorceress of no small repute)...
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Post by howandwhy99 on Jan 30, 2018 12:16:30 GMT -5
My understanding is most of the central lands were ostensibly named or renamed by the Great Kingdom when it expanded west.
Near on, Near yonder - (nyrond) Far on, Far yonder - (ferrond, furyondy) Divers - (dyvers) Near Dive - (nyr dyv)
Tilva Straight and Tilva-NOT Peninsula I never really equated with Pontylver, but that may lead to something.
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Early Aerdi cities I think came when they were still moving out of their age of antiquity. So Latin pervades. And we get the City of Stars, City of Dead, and (maybe a stretch) City of the Sea under Relmor Bay.
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A few months ago I was all over looking at Greyhawk naming and what it might lead to as an implied setting. There are many family names, but also quite a few foreign words (niole dra anyone?) which give some indication of what Gary might have been thinking.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Jan 31, 2018 12:15:03 GMT -5
I'm not sure what you're saying. Name origins that are known to me: Nyrond and Dyvers is the source for Nyr Dyv. Veluna, Verbobonc and Dyver is the source for Velverdyva. Everything else is speculation on my part. For example, "Keoland" could be either "Don Kaye's land" or "Tom Keogh's land" for all I know. Is Tsojconth/Tsojcanth a mash-up of Kuntz + Gygax? T s/z o/u j/gg c/k a/o n th/yx ? Is it possible Tzunk/Codex of Infinite Planes is connected to Tsojconth/Tsojcanth?
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 31, 2018 13:52:57 GMT -5
"Rob Kuntz" slant rhymes with "Tsojcanth" so its appropriate in context as the caverns once belonged to a principal named Tsojcanth. In the original version from 1976, Iggwilv was originally a man so its obviously EGG. Also Graz'zt is TSR, Geoff/Perrunland is Jeff Perren:
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 8, 2018 14:37:04 GMT -5
I just got a good one what if "TILL" is a wordplay on Ernie Gygax? ERNEST GARRISON GYGAX JUNIOR or ERNEST GARY GYGAX JUNIOR or ERNEST GARY GYGAX II or LITTLE ERNIE or LITTLE GARY or ERNIE THE WELL KNOWN BARBARIAN or TENSER or SERTEN or POZTIF or ERAC
"LITTLE" and "II" = LIT TIL and "LL"
THILLRONIAN PENINSULA = BARBARIAN KINGDOMSCould be. This seems likely that "TIL" could relate to Ernie Gygax, and perhaps EGG's desire to help him mature through his teen years? I was looking at the VOH area map, a kind of "playground" once for teenage Ernie Gygax (and pre-teen Luke also): the inn has a rough "T" shape, the church has a rough "I" shape, and the traders' establishment has a rough "L" shape? It can correspond to a father's desire for a teenage son to progress to well-rounded maturity: socially, character & beliefs, and a tradeable craft? Incidentally, the guard tower has a rough "O" shape and the moathouse ruins has a rough "Q" shape, not sure if this might be related to something else such as EGG's daughters?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Mar 14, 2018 16:58:21 GMT -5
I just got a good one what if "TILL" is a wordplay on Ernie Gygax? ERNEST GARRISON GYGAX JUNIOR or ERNEST GARY GYGAX JUNIOR or ERNEST GARY GYGAX II or LITTLE ERNIE or LITTLE GARY or ERNIE THE WELL KNOWN BARBARIAN or TENSER or SERTEN or POZTIF or ERAC
"LITTLE" and "II" = LIT TIL and "LL"
THILLRONIAN PENINSULA = BARBARIAN KINGDOMSCould be. This seems likely that "TIL" could relate to Ernie Gygax, and perhaps EGG's desire to help him mature through his teen years? I was looking at the VOH area map, a kind of "playground" once for teenage Ernie Gygax (and pre-teen Luke also): the inn has a rough "T" shape, the church has a rough "I" shape, and the traders' establishment has a rough "L" shape? It can correspond to a father's desire for a teenage son to progress to well-rounded maturity: socially, character & beliefs, and a tradeable craft? Incidentally, the guard tower has a rough "O" shape and the moathouse ruins has a rough "Q" shape, not sure if this might be related to something else such as EGG's daughters? I was looking at the guard tower rough shape both on the village map and on the detail map - it has a rough shape similar to a Chicago Cubs logo {were Gary and his family Cubs fans?}, or else even as a pig face complete with protruding snout as if viewed from straight-on perspective? Is it meant as fun commentary on the occupants, Burne & Rufus, being "little piggies?" If so, is there a third "little piggie" in view amongst VOH residents? If that is the case, is there also a "big bad wolf" {werewolf villain?} in view to wreak destruction on the local structures and eat up these little piggies?😀
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 14, 2018 19:57:48 GMT -5
I don't know the Hommlet tower looks like the image of the tower standards of page 21 of THE UNDERWORLD AND WILDERNESS ADVENTURES: VOLUME 3 OF THREE BOOKLETS from the 1974 original D&D set.
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