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Post by Scott on Dec 17, 2010 8:42:49 GMT -5
As far as I can remember, the Moathouse isn't mentioned at all in the background material, or in any part of the Hommlet portion of the adventure in a way that the players might hear about it. How have you introduced it to the party?
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Post by GRWelsh on Dec 22, 2010 18:56:24 GMT -5
As written, the background seems to be presented to get a party interested in exploring the Temple itself. So, I always thought it was assumed the player characters would start asking about the Temple, and from such inquiries, find out about the much closer outpost of the moathouse. Or, they may be curious about the bandits riding the roads near Hommlet again recently, and ask about where such bandits might be hiding out in the wilderness near the village.
I have always had the impression that the intent was for the players to discover the existence of the moathouse from their own initiative and/or questions, rather than the DM to just say something like, "bandits have been riding the roads near Hommlet again recently, and it is very likely they are using the moathouse as a base or outpost."
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Post by Scott on Dec 22, 2010 19:43:24 GMT -5
I agree that that was the intent. I just think it's odd that it's not really mentioned at all. I remember one NPC having a line in his description that states, 'does not trust the traders', or something like that. Just some blurb like that; if you talk to this NPC about the Temple, he will mention the nearby moathouse kinda thing.
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Post by Egg of Coot on Jan 14, 2011 12:47:50 GMT -5
I've introduced the Moathouse (and a number of other connected locales) through simple PC interactions with the locals. If the players ask about ruins, etc. the name and rough locations are provided. Most of the villagers will not have put two and two together as far as the Moathouse's history and the recent spate of banditry goes, and will simply say that it's probably an unhealthy place to go. It's up to the players to make the correct inquiries with the right people to glean the full picture. I've always believed that the players have to make an effort to drive the story forward. I'd be horribly disappointed if the players simply sat around waiting for a villager to walk up and say: "Hey, why dontcha go check out the old Moathouse. It used to be an outpost for the Temple, and seeing as old habits die hard, it's probably being used by the baddies as a toehold for reconquering the region." I think Gary and Frank left out any written references to the Moathouse simply because they expected DMs to do their own legwork on that account.
The Egg
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Post by Scott on Jan 14, 2011 15:33:18 GMT -5
I’ve been doing the legwork for decades now. It just strikes me as odd.There is a ton of superfluous info given for everybody living in Hommlet, but nothing about who knows anything about the Moathouse. This isn't a free-form role playing session where the PCs are going to blow into town looking for ruins. They're going to blow into town and go, "Hey where's this Temple of Elemental Evil that the DM just told us about in that long winded background spiel?"
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Post by Egg of Coot on Jan 20, 2011 10:45:50 GMT -5
I'll agree that it is odd. The most likely reason for the omission is that Gary's incomplete notes, etc. hadn't addressed the issue and Frank either didn't bother to add the requisite material or wasn't given the time to. I'm not familiar with the story of the module's development, but I get the feeling FM wasn't given much time or leeway within which to produce the completed project.
The Egg
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Falconer
Enchanter
Knight Bachelor
AD&D, Middle-earth, Star Trek TOS
Posts: 330
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Post by Falconer on Jan 21, 2011 0:05:35 GMT -5
But Egg, we’re talking about T1, which as far as I know Frank Mentzer had nothing to do with.
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Post by Scott on Jan 21, 2011 7:43:44 GMT -5
That's correct. Frank was given the notes years after T1 was published. As is, it's totally Gary's style; he often assumed readers would know what to do in such cases. That said, it would have been useful info, especially for someone new to the game and setting. I remember being a young DM, around 13 or so, being a bit perplexed by the background vs. the module contents.
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Post by Egg of Coot on Jan 31, 2011 13:05:37 GMT -5
But Egg, we’re talking about T1, which as far as I know Frank Mentzer had nothing to do with. You're right, my mistake. I haven't got my copy of T1handy, so how many (and how extensive are the) references made to the Temple in the original module? The Egg
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 476
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Post by foster1941 on Feb 3, 2016 13:23:51 GMT -5
The structure of T1 is a little confusing - the intro talks all about the temple and investigating to see if it's returning, then drops the party off in a village a few miles away, seemingly expecting them to hang out and talk to the villagers and eventually (presumably) find out about the nearby ruined moathouse and go explore it. When we originally played through it that wasn't a big deal because we didn't think about things that much and just sort of took what was set in front of us - the book says you start in Hommlett and explore the moathouse, so that's what we did. But in retrospect it's a little weird. If I were to run this again I think I'd want to add a little more context to make it flow more naturally: before they come to the area they'll already know about Nulb and how dangerous it is and that Hommlett is also nearby the temple ruins and likely to be a safer place to establish a home base. Then, once they're in Hommlett and start talking to people they're discouraged from going immediately to the temple ruins and encouraged instead to stick around and help the villagers deal with the bandits who've been causing trouble in the area. That search leads to some red-herring encounters, before eventually they're able to trace the bandits back to their base in the old, ruined moathouse. That is, I suppose, how Gary actually expected things to play out, but it's not all that clear (especially to an 11 year old) when reading the thing.
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Post by Scott on Feb 3, 2016 14:12:51 GMT -5
Having spent a lot of time pondering this I assume Elmo suspects something is at the Moathouse. He approaches the party, and once he gets a feel for them, steers them there. The other local NPCs probably have the same suspicions, and would try to lead the party there first, but the PCs would have to initiate the meetings and conversation.
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Post by archma9e on Jun 22, 2016 8:26:42 GMT -5
The text of the module indicates that Spugnoir is aware of the moathouse and plans to search it, because he's learned that a warlock was housed there
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 22, 2016 16:56:35 GMT -5
We've become so jaded that the obvious is right in front of our faces:
The moathouse section is all not in bold only magic items, spells and the word "warren" for the ghouls. This is the opening to the section which I've colorized parts which Gary most likely is referring you to put into your own words (so you can get there):
So apparently everyone knows the old moathouse is there and if you're asking around then everyone knows where it is.
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