Mult-Class PC's

[GT]

OK; I have always played multi-class (elves, halflings, etc.) as having to divide the XP between the two classes, However, it was pointed out to me that nowhere in the PH or DMG does it say that, and the fact that Hit Points are rolled and then divided by the number of classes is an overly severe penalty for being multi-classed, as you still would have to get the same XP as any other class, but get half of the "rewards". Have I been an overly harsh DM, or am I missing something from a Polyhedron or another official source?

[Scott]

Does somebody think that each class gets the full experience point amount? I just unpacked my books and I'll post the quotes soon.

[Scott]

Here's one example when describing the class options available to dwarves:
PH p. 15, under Dwarves:

Experience will always be divided between the two classes also, even though the dwarf may no longer advance upwards in fighting ability level.

There are similar notes under the other race descriptions.

[geneweigel]

I always get these kinds of requestioning questions from players when I'm really bombed. Although, not necessarily as sincere as your questioning here.

Another is about "new" spells (because i always give my "new D&D is good" speech at least once a campaign) which are just cheap combos with a lot of deliberately confusing window dressing to get it in as easy as possible. I hate that.

Or the "material component 4am express" where the player wants to overlook all the costs of something that was designed to counter abuse like for instance a write spell to "quickly jot" a spell that they already failed on.

(Heres something that just popped into my head, I think the clearest D&D conversation that I have ever had was with Gary. It was like I didn't have to "prove" anything with a reference or anything. )

[GT]

Thanks, Scott ( I kinda stumbled on those by accident after I posted---I wish that those statements had been put under the "bold-faced multi-class" entries!) ^__^ And yes, Gene, players try to pull many things on DM's befuddled by mass player input, lack of sleep, alcohol indulging, etc.! I knew that I could count on you guys to steer me back onto the true path!

[Scott]

There are a lot of rules like that, scattered all over the place. But what a great game when you put it all together.

[GT]

Actually ( Gene will love this... ) The Bard was brought up--they can really rack up the points (and Woodstock has, even though his Thief levels are less than his Fighter, so nothing there; but high Con giving +2 hp is quite a help--he's 14th level Bard now!) It does seem a bit cold in some respects that they reap so many benefits, while multi-class demihumans do not... ^__^

[Scott]

Gildon (the Glib) has no Con bonus, but he still has quite a HP total. 7d10s + 1d6 for thief levels +6d6 for bard levels = 83 HPs. Probably the luckiest HP rolls of any character I've ever had.

[GT]

I'd say Woodstock had the luckiest of rolls ever in my campaign... must be a Bard thing! Yeah, and he's psionic too! (utterly legitimate). He helped make me a more "cruel" DM! ^__^

[Scott]

The good half of Gildon's alignment would certainly be tested if he ever came across Con increasing magic. Same thing with anything that could increase his fighter level.

[Scott]

The thief level too, now that I think about it. One more and he'd get quadruple backstab damage.

[amalric]

Isn't it all balanced out - or supposedly balanced out - by the benefits accrued from a multi-classed character's other class? A F/MU for example may advance half as quick as a single-class MU, but he does have the advantage of the Fighter's d10 HP and weapons+armor. Give him +3 armor, shield and sword and combine it with some spell-chucking and you have a fair tank on your hands!

And if anyone complains that multi-class still get a raw deal over HP...tell them to roll a better dexterity/constitution in future!

[amalric]

Aug 3, 2009 6:12:20 GMT -5 Scott said:

Here's one example when describing the class options available to dwarves:
PH p. 15, under Dwarves:

Experience will always be divided between the two classes also, even though the dwarf may no longer advance upwards in fighting ability level.

There are similar notes under the other race descriptions.

GT ~ There's a line in parentheses immediately after Scott's quote:-

(Complete information regarding this subject is given hereunder in the section dealing with CHARACTER CLASSES.)

Now, if you turn to the CHARACTER CLASSES (p18-19 in my 6th ed PHB), and Notes Regarding Character Classes Table I, you'll find this:-

-------------------------------------

Class of Character is self-explanatory. Multi-classes have been omitted, but certain facts pertaining to them are given hereafter...

...Multi-classed characters determine their hit points as follows:-

• 1. Roll the hit die (or dice) appropriate to each classthe character is professing.
  
• 2. Total the sum of all dice so rolled, and adjust for constitution (q.v.).
  
• 3. Divide the total by the character's classes (two or three), dropping fractions under 1/2, rounding fractions of 1/2 or greater upwards to the next whole number.
  
• 4. The number derived (quotient) is the number of hit points the multi-classed character gains with the rise in that experience level.
  

-------------------------------------

Thought I'd list it word-for-word, rather than just prvide the reference. Funny thing, I always thought fractions were rounded down - now I'm wondering if there's a quote for that somewhere else!

[GT]

Thanks , Amalric! My actual concern revolved around whether if a multi-class PC got, say, 1000 XP if it applied to all classes or was split between them evenly; this because of the fact that dual-class humans (such as Bards) get to reap all of the benefits of advancing in their various classes--including hit points, while multi-classes did not. The answer was in fact hidden in the race descriptions, but not elucidated in the multi-class description (which simply told how to figure the hit points, but not how to divide experience). As it turned out, I had it proper, but since I started that back in 1979, I couldn't remember where it had come from... In some respects, a character such as Yokon the Wise, a fighter/ m-u elf max'ed out at 6/11 (this, thanks to a manual of puissant skill at arms and a libram of silver magic!) and 41 hit points has a bit to carp about when compared to Woodstock the Bard, who started at the same time and can also use armor (if desired and not using thieving skills) and has more than three times that number of hit points. BTW; how's Scotland? I could go for a Alba Scots Pine or a Tomintoul Nessies right now in place of the domestic swill I have available! ^__^

[Scott]

[Overwrote Scott's post about using the highest hit die for multi-classes. It was an accident, sorry -- Grash]

[GRWelsh]

I like Scott's house rule, because otherwise you're dealing with a hellacious bell-curve that ropes you into mediocrity.

Another house rule that I like (which originated with me misunderstanding the rules) is to shut off XP's being filtered into a maxed out class, and for all of them to be routed to the still advancing class(es). I figure, it is hard enough to gain levels at higher levels.

[ghul]

I haven't split the XP evenly since I was a teenage DM in the 80's. They do end up very close, but I'm one of those types who gives a small XP amount here or small XP amount there for creative use of abilities. If the M-U/T uses mostly thiefly skills throughout the course of the session, and comes up with a few innovations that impress me, he may end up with 100 or so more XP for his thief than his M-U by the end of the night; otherwise, all monster and treasure XP are evenly split. Sorry if you were looking for something more BTB. Just sayin'.