Monster Tactics

[Scott]

How prepared do you think most monsters are for combating spell casters? Would a goblin raiding band move in a formation that considers a spell caster flinging a fireball?
I'm running Tsojcanth for my group, and the party has really not been challenged by the wilderness encounters. I don't want to set up the encounters unrealisticly just to make it harder on the party.
The encounters are on a main or smaller "trail" in the mountains. You have a large group of humsnoids forced into a small space. it just seems like they're set up to be taken out by fireball and lightning bolt spells.

[Scott]

Another questions is what do you think is a 'tough looking' party from the monster's point of view? A lot of the encounter descriptions mention that the monsters will avoid tough looking parties. If you're a party of three hill giants, what's a tough looking party of adventurers look like?

[geneweigel]

If they've ever seen a fireball they most likely were on the receiving end of it and wouldn't be around to tell!



I don't know. If they're locals and "Wilva" hasn't been around for looooong time then they know what they know which is local. But if they're dimensional hoppers from the nexus "somehow" (whatever the DM figures that thing does in the middle of the adventure) then I'd say some humanoids might be well-rounded vetted "gobs" who've seen lots of field action before they ended up there magically (who knows?).

Otherwise if you really push it, the isolation of the area would probably have them wary of missiles, the hidden and other indirect approaches to fghting probably a lot of sniping and laying low in the rocky barren terrain anyhow.

[Scott]

The goblin band, specifically, is just passing through. They’re on their way to the Vesve. Their leader is just your standard 1+1 HD shlub. I wouldn’t give them any special battlefield tactical knowledge. Unless they manage to surprise the party, it will be another instance of the party spotting them and killing enough of them to cause the rest to route before they get an attack off.

[GT]

I reckon that much of it comes down to the intelligence of the director(s) of any group of monsters--a very intelligent goblin commander could spot a spell-slinger, and would deploy accordingly. They are "lawful", after all! ^__^

[Scott]

In most situations I agree. But in this particular adventure, the monsters are often helpless against a party in the set level range,
The goblin encounter, for example, will occur without surprise at 170 yards distance on a clear day on a narrow mountain trail. The poor buggers aren't even in sling range. The narrow trail will force a column formation, which will reduce the damage a fireball could do, but it could take out a good chunk of their regulars, and a lightning bolt might be even more effective. I haven't decided on turns or bends in the trail. The goblins will retreat after they take about 20 casualties, or if they face a tough foe. It's pointless.; it's one round, one spell, over. And the way the encounters are set up, there won't be another before he's had a chance to re memorize. Maybe the return trip will be tougher, I'll be defaulting to the normal encounter tables after the trail has been crossed once.

[GT]

Well Scott, always remember: "WWGGD"--What would Gary Gygax Do? Throw a goblin shaman in the group with spells of his own or have some set up above with rocks to dislodge (don't exactly remember the specifics in the mod off the top, but I believe that "avalanche" was a natural hazard to be found....) If I think that some encounters in a mod are too easy, I certainly jack them up! Sometimes I go "too hard", so I compensate with "an extremely good place to rest and recuperate" or somesuch. As often as not, I can gauge it pretty close. I've actually built in "just in case" scenarios into the Castle Zagyg encounters too--some of these guys have been playing for 30 years and managed to keep one or two PC's alive, so I'm onto their tricks! Not to say, "try to screwthe players", but keep in mind their experience and give them a fair challenge that actually does hold the possibility of killing some or all of them if they get careless/cocky (the latter is what I contend with, often as not)^__^

[GT]

I forgot the "tough looking party" part... tough warrior humanoids will recognize tough adventurers the same way a Green Beret will recognize a Spetsnaz... they have that "lean and hungry look"!

[amalric]

Stagger the goblin band?

There's nothing to say that even the most backward-thinking goblin leader doesn't have scouts run ahead. You could have 1-3 scouts up front, then perhaps an advance party (depending upon overall numbers) of 10-20 - and THEN follow with the main band. If you run that twice in the same day, there's a good chance most of the fireballs and lightning bolts have been used up.

That might be streching it, but it does up the difficulty level for the PCs - as you say, a quick fireball/lightning bolt in narrow valleys ruins any hopes the goblins might have. Could combine the goblins with the hill giant trio earlier in the day, to the same effect..?

[Scott]

When I run one of the adventures I consider a classic, I usually don't alter the monsters on the first encounter, or first time through an area. I give them the author's stuff as is. BUT, after that, I'll add in a way that I feel would be appropriate.
And thinking about, the Caverns are full of encounters that will challenge them, and then some.

[GT]

Awwwww, c'mon Scott--lay a little smack down! What's the worst that can happen? (OK, a TPK... but besides that...) ^__^

[Scott]

Being a soft DM is something I'll never be accused of. But I do let the dice fall where they may. Sometimes the favor the PCs. Sometimes they don't.

[amalric]

May 15, 2009 19:18:27 GMT -5 Scott said:

When I run one of the adventures I consider a classic, I usually don't alter the monsters on the first encounter, or first time through an area. I give them the author's stuff as is. BUT, after that, I'll add in a way that I feel would be appropriate.
And thinking about, the Caverns are full of encounters that will challenge them, and then some.

Fair point! Let the dice decide...

[grodog]

There's a great pair of articles from White Dwarf #38 (February 1983) on monster tactics in general, and humanoids in particular: "Monsters Have Feelings Too" by Oliver MacDonald, and "Excerpts from the Uruk Hai Battle Manual" by Graeme Davis. Both are quite good, and available for your reading pleasure at www.greyhawkonline.com/grodog/temp/the_game/monsters.pdf =)

[grodog]

May 15, 2009 10:58:03 GMT -5 Scott said:

Another questions is what do you think is a 'tough looking' party from the monster's point of view? A lot of the encounter descriptions mention that the monsters will avoid tough looking parties. If you're a party of three hill giants, what's a tough looking party of adventurers look like?

I think that any party that's out-gunned 10:1 or more, and appears completely unconcerned, is likely to scare the hell out of humanoids. A trio of giants, on the other hand, might consider going after PCs at 2:1 odds against, perhaps, but that seems to me to be pushing it from their POV.

[Scott]

A trio of hill giants could take out a whole village of normal humans, even armored ones.
I don't think a hill giant could tell the difference between a 3rd level party and a 10th level party.
Unless the party has the same big scary cloud that followed the lost arc around in Raiders of the Lost Arc hovering over it I think a big dumb giant will almost always attack.