Ghouls' Paralysis

[Scott]

I've seen this discussed before, but don't know if Ive ever seen a conclusive answer. How long does a ghoul's paralysis last?
Scott

[Falconer]

"Any human or demi-human creature struck by a ghoul must save versus paralyzation or become immobile for 3-12 turns." T1 The Village of Hommlet, p. 15. Regards.

[geneweigel]

Here's a post I did on Dragonsfoot about the subject a while back:

Here's a bit on paralyzation from various Sage Advice columns in Dragon Magazine:

#37

Question: How long does the paralysis caused by a car-
rion crawler, ghast or ghoul last?

Answer: I have always assumed it to be 24 hours. However, since
the duration of the paralysis is not clearly defined in any of the
books, I suggest that each DM decide the duration in his particular
campaign.
* * *

#39

Question: In TD-37 Sage Advice there was a ques-
tion referring to the paralysis caused by ghouls, ghasts and
carrion crawlers. The reply stated that the duration of the
paralysis was not clearly defined in any of the rule books.
However, a duration for the paralysis inflicted by ghouls is
given on page 15 of T1, The Village of Hommlet. It states that
"Any human or demi-human must save vs. paralyzation or
become immobile for 3-12 turns." I suppose this is the
official word. Still, what is the duration of the paralysis
caused by ghasts and carrion crawlers?

Answer: According to Lawrence Schick, Vice-President for
Production and Design at TSR Hobbies, the paralyzation caused by
carrion crawlers is of the same duration as that caused by ghouls
3-12 turns. Paralyzation caused by a ghast takes twice as long 6-24
turns to wear off.
* * *

#43

Question: Does one saving throw, apply to multiple attacks
(e.g. If three ghouls hit one character simultaneously are
three saves necessary to negate paralyzation?)?

Answer: The act of rolling a saving throw is the end result of the
concept that there is a chance for an occurrence to not adversely influ-
ence a character for one reason or another. In the case of three ghouls
making paralyzation attacks, there are three separate chances to be in-
fluenced by the magic of the ghouls and thus a need for three separ-
ate saving throws. Just because a character is lucky enough to resist
the influence of two ghouls does not mean that the luck he has will or
will not run out with that third attack. J. Ward, W. Niebling

[Scott]

That is rough. On average that in an hour and 20 minutes of time waiting for the paralysis to wear off. I'll be enforcing this rule a lot stricter in the future. The Slayers Guide to Undead has the best explaination for the ability I've read, "In essence, the ghoul's attack transfers the rigor mortis, that by rights should constrain the ghoul, onto the victim."
Scott

[GT]

OK... How 'bout the Rod of Lordly Might? Wasn't there a Sage Advice or early Polyhedron column that put its Paralysis at 1 - 4 turns? i can't remember, but I believe that was the case... ^__^

[GT]

Here's another, this answer definitely from the Gar-Bear himself: Ghoul and Carrion Crawler paralysis lasts 5D4 rounds (Polyhedron #2, pg. 3)

[GRWelsh]

I like the 5-20 rounds duration best. It allows for potential of wearing off while a melee is still going on, which creates drama. The same applies to the hold person spell cast by lower level casters.

[GT]

I do agree with the one save per successful hit bit from above... and yes, I like the 5 - 20 rds better, too. ^__^

[geneweigel]

I would have a chance for each effect plus the DM's choice would be a few rounds but with floppy wrists for several days...

Just kidding!

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Jun 7, 2009 10:40:48 GMT -5 GT said:

Here's another, this answer definitely from the Gar-Bear himself: Ghoul and Carrion Crawler paralysis lasts 5D4 rounds (Polyhedron #2, pg. 3)

I've typically gone with the longer turn paralysis per VOH, but this is an interesting alternative?

Maybe a combination - if save is failed, roll system shock, failed system shock results in the longer duration per VOH, successful system shock results in the 5D4 rounds of paralysis?

[geneweigel]

Here is the official answer that GT mentioned from POLYHEDRON #2 (it says "Autumn 1981 but it was specifically out August 1981):

Ever wonder how long paralysis lasts?
Or whether Strength bonuses apply to
certain missiles? The answers to these
and other questions have been provided
by the Grand Master of Dragons himself:
E. Gary Gygax.
That's right; these answers are from
Gary, So get out your pens and note the
details right in your books; or clip this
page (as well as the other DISPEL CONFUSION
columns) and keep them with
your other AD&D materials,
Please send all questions about rules
for ANY of TSR's role playing games to
DISPEL CONFUSION, care of this newsletter.

Q: How long does (or should) paralysis
caused by a carrion crawler last? And
what, if any. are the effects of multiple
hits by this creature?

A: Paralysis from creatures lasts as long
as paralysis from a wand: 5d4 (5-20)
rounds (DMG page 136). Multiple hits
from a carrion crawler (or any other
paralyzing creature) forces multiple saving
throws on the part of the victim;
when anyone is failed, the other hits
have no further effect on the paralysis
(damages still apply if given, such as by
a ghoul or ghast).

and here was a non-AD&D question for "D&D" in POLYHEDRON #19 (SEP 1984):

DQ: Can an elf be paralyzed by a carrion
crawler or a gelatinous cube? What damage
would such creatures do to an elf?

OA: Elves are only immune to ghoul paralysis
(and likewise that of directly related creatures
such as thouls). They are as vulnerable to paraly·
sis from other sources as any other character
(saving throw applies). Treat attacks on elves
from carrion crawlers and gelatinous cubes
normally in all respects.

NOTE BY ME: Ghasts ARE NOT "directly related" to ghouls rather they are super ghouls.

And here is how it relates to glyph of warding from POLYHEDRON #21 (JAN 1985):

ADQ: How experienced must a cleric be
to cast a glyph of warding for paralysis or
energy drain?

ADA: Glyphs for these and other effects
may be cast by clerics who can also cast
spells with similar effects. Thus, for a glyph
of energy draining, the cleric must be 16th
or higher level. Treat paralysis as if a hold
person effect, thus castable by anyone who
can cast a glyph in the first place.

POLYHEDRON #16 (FEB 1984):

ADQ: What is the duration for the
paralyzation ability of the Rod of
Lordly Might?

ADA: Paralyzation from the rod lasts 1-4·
turns.

D1 SHRINE OF THE KUO-TOA (1978) had permanent paralyzation as a one-time poison:

ROYAL SPAWNING POOL: Only the ruler of the shrine area and
his concubines (see 28. below) may use this pool. It is 40'
deep and its bottom is strewn with 31 1 large base 100 g.p,
gems. 4 female fighters of 4th level (H.P.: 24 each) are in pairs
guarding the two arched entrances to the place, and
another pair is stationed at the north. Each is armed with
shield, dagger, and paralysis spear (a normal weapon with
a one-time-only substance coating its head). Creatures
failing to save versus poison are paralyzed until a neutralize
poison spell is cast upon them. See also 19.

S3 EXPEDITION TO BARRIER PEAKS (1980) had a paralysis pistol:

Paralysis lasts 3 turns at short range, 2 at medium range and 1 at
long range. A successful saving throw at short range indicates
that paralysis will last only 2-12 rounds. At medium range a
successful save means that the target creature is paralyzed for 1-4
rounds and slowed to half movement and attack for 1-4 rounds
thereafter. At long range a successful save means the creature is
slowed for 1-4 rounds. Note: Slowed creatures lose all dexterity
bonuses. Slowed creatures struck by the paralysis ray are
automatically paralyzed for 1 to 3 turns according to the range.

MONSTER MANUAL II (1983) has pentadrone modrons with paralysis gas:

Nirvana's worker populace is policed on a day-to-day basis by pentadrones.
These 5-armed creatures resemble starfish on thin stilt-like
legs. In addition to powerful arm attacks and an effective 18/00
strength, pentadrones have a paralysis gas which they can emit in a
stream 2 feet in diameter and 5 feet in length. Any creature caught
within this stream must save vs. paralysis or remain immobile for 5
rounds. Pentadrones can use this gas stream no more than once every 5
turns, 5 times per day. Alternately, the pentadrones are able to use this
gas to levitate as 5th-level magic-users

This isn't exhaustive. This is just what I was able to compile as examples.

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Jan 28, 2018 10:55:51 GMT -5 davegibsongreyhawkdm said:

Jun 7, 2009 10:40:48 GMT -5 GT said:

Here's another, this answer definitely from the Gar-Bear himself: Ghoul and Carrion Crawler paralysis lasts 5D4 rounds (Polyhedron #2, pg. 3)

I've typically gone with the longer turn paralysis per VOH, but this is an interesting alternative?

Maybe a combination - if save is failed, roll system shock, failed system shock results in the longer duration per VOH, successful system shock results in the 5D4 rounds of paralysis?

The duration of the paralysis has been a largely moot point in all of the gaming sessions I can recall, due to how I have ghouls immediately fall to dragging off, rending and gnashing the flesh of any paralysis victims at the first available opportunity, even in the midst of melee combat if they can get away with it! If the party doesn't fight off ghouls from any paralyzed prey right away, the deaths come quickly!

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Jan 28, 2018 12:39:47 GMT -5 geneweigel said:

Here is the official answer that GT mentioned from POLYHEDRON #2 (it says "Autumn 1981 but it was specifically out August 1981):

Ever wonder how long paralysis lasts?
Or whether Strength bonuses apply to
certain missiles? The answers to these
and other questions have been provided
by the Grand Master of Dragons himself:
E. Gary Gygax.
That's right; these answers are from
Gary, So get out your pens and note the
details right in your books; or clip this
page (as well as the other DISPEL CONFUSION
columns) and keep them with
your other AD&D materials,
Please send all questions about rules
for ANY of TSR's role playing games to
DISPEL CONFUSION, care of this newsletter.

Q: How long does (or should) paralysis
caused by a carrion crawler last? And
what, if any. are the effects of multiple
hits by this creature?

A: Paralysis from creatures lasts as long
as paralysis from a wand: 5d4 (5-20)
rounds (DMG page 136). Multiple hits
from a carrion crawler (or any other
paralyzing creature) forces multiple saving
throws on the part of the victim;
when anyone is failed, the other hits
have no further effect on the paralysis
(damages still apply if given, such as by
a ghoul or ghast).

and here was a non-AD&D question for "D&D" in POLYHEDRON #19 (SEP 1984):

DQ: Can an elf be paralyzed by a carrion
crawler or a gelatinous cube? What damage
would such creatures do to an elf?

OA: Elves are only immune to ghoul paralysis
(and likewise that of directly related creatures
such as thouls). They are as vulnerable to paraly·
sis from other sources as any other character
(saving throw applies). Treat attacks on elves
from carrion crawlers and gelatinous cubes
normally in all respects.

NOTE BY ME: Ghasts ARE NOT "directly related" to ghouls rather they are super ghouls.

And here is how it relates to glyph of warding from POLYHEDRON #21 (JAN 1985):

ADQ: How experienced must a cleric be
to cast a glyph of warding for paralysis or
energy drain?

ADA: Glyphs for these and other effects
may be cast by clerics who can also cast
spells with similar effects. Thus, for a glyph
of energy draining, the cleric must be 16th
or higher level. Treat paralysis as if a hold
person effect, thus castable by anyone who
can cast a glyph in the first place.

POLYHEDRON #16 (FEB 1984):

ADQ: What is the duration for the
paralyzation ability of the Rod of
Lordly Might?

ADA: Paralyzation from the rod lasts 1-4·
turns.

D1 SHRINE OF THE KUO-TOA (1978) had permanent paralyzation as a one-time poison:

ROYAL SPAWNING POOL: Only the ruler of the shrine area and
his concubines (see 28. below) may use this pool. It is 40'
deep and its bottom is strewn with 31 1 large base 100 g.p,
gems. 4 female fighters of 4th level (H.P.: 24 each) are in pairs
guarding the two arched entrances to the place, and
another pair is stationed at the north. Each is armed with
shield, dagger, and paralysis spear (a normal weapon with
a one-time-only substance coating its head). Creatures
failing to save versus poison are paralyzed until a neutralize
poison spell is cast upon them. See also 19.

S3 EXPEDITION TO BARRIER PEAKS (1980) had a paralysis pistol:

Paralysis lasts 3 turns at short range, 2 at medium range and 1 at
long range. A successful saving throw at short range indicates
that paralysis will last only 2-12 rounds. At medium range a
successful save means that the target creature is paralyzed for 1-4
rounds and slowed to half movement and attack for 1-4 rounds
thereafter. At long range a successful save means the creature is
slowed for 1-4 rounds. Note: Slowed creatures lose all dexterity
bonuses. Slowed creatures struck by the paralysis ray are
automatically paralyzed for 1 to 3 turns according to the range.

MONSTER MANUAL II (1983) has pentadrone modrons with paralysis gas:

Nirvana's worker populace is policed on a day-to-day basis by pentadrones.
These 5-armed creatures resemble starfish on thin stilt-like
legs. In addition to powerful arm attacks and an effective 18/00
strength, pentadrones have a paralysis gas which they can emit in a
stream 2 feet in diameter and 5 feet in length. Any creature caught
within this stream must save vs. paralysis or remain immobile for 5
rounds. Pentadrones can use this gas stream no more than once every 5
turns, 5 times per day. Alternately, the pentadrones are able to use this
gas to levitate as 5th-level magic-users

This isn't exhaustive. This is just what I was able to compile as examples.

I have DM'ed ghouls and ghasts that it is their two claw {touch causes paralysis per MM} attacks that can cause paralysis, and not their bite attack? So if a PC is hit three times claw/claw/bite by one ghoul or ghast within a melee round, then two paralysis saving throws are applicable - is this a correct ruling? Is bite attack considered touch also requiring a paralysis saving throw as well?

Cold iron weapons cause double damage to ghasts, would this also apply to ghouls? Why or why not?

[geneweigel]

Its three. As they were once 3 attacks so it was grandfathered in but there are some contradictory paralysis info due to mix ups:

From DRAGON #39 Sage Advice (JUL 1980) which was not official:

Question: In TD-37’s “Sage Advice” there was a question
referring to the paralysis caused by ghouls, ghasts and
carrion crawlers. The reply stated that the duration of the
paralysis was not clearly defined in any of the rule books.
However, a duration for the paralysis inflicted by ghouls is
given on page 15 of T1, The Village of Hommlet. It states that
“Any human or demi-human must save vs. paralyzation or
become immobile for 3-12 turns.” I suppose this is the
official word. Still, what is the duration of the paralysis
caused by ghasts and carrion crawlers?
Answer: According to Lawrence Schick, Vice-President for
Production and Design at TSR Hobbies, the paralyzation caused by
carrion crawlers is of the same duration as that caused by ghouls—
3-12 turns. Paralyzation caused by a ghast takes twice as long—6-24
turns—to wear off

From DRAGON #43 (NOV 1980)

Question: Does one saving throw, apply to multiple attacks
(e.g. If three ghouls hit one character simultaneously are
three saves necessary to negate paralyzation?)?
Answer: The act of rolling a saving throw is the end result of the
concept that there is a chance for an occurrence to not adversely influence
a character for one reason or another. In the case of three ghouls
making paralyzation attacks, there are three separate chances to be influenced
by the magic of the ghouls and thus a need for three separate
saving throws. Just because a character is lucky enough to resist
the influence of two ghouls does not mean that the luck he has will or
will not run out with that third attack. —J. Ward, W. Niebling

From MONSTER CARDS (1981) Ghoul card:

A ghoul attacks fearlessly with its clawed hands and
sharp fangs. A successful hit by a ghoul can paralyze
humans, dwarves, half-elves, half-orcs, gnomes and
halflings for 2d6 turns unless a save vs. Paralysis is
made.

I believe the three attacks paralyze is pretty legit as in SLAYER'S GUIDE TO THE UNDEAD (2002) Gary wrote:

All three of these undead forms can paralyse by
striking a foe with tooth or claw. In essence, the
ghoul 's attack transfers the rigor mortis, that by rights
should constrain the ghoul onto the victim. Elves,
whose bodies do not become stiff in the initial stage
of death, are immune to this paralysis unless it comes
from a ghast, the touch of which is sufficient to
overcome this natural resistance.

As for cold iron, I'd assume its "demonic" because they're derived from manes demons. The "iron weapons" do damage to demons and not devils.