Avoiding high level burn out

[Axe Mental]

Is it only me or do you get sick of your high level PCs. Its like they loose something starting at about 12th level. Is it that we can't relate to them as much any more (too super hero feeling) or is it that there are fewer interesting challanges for them to face. When a group of villagers or a couple of orcs aren't a problem anymore, perhaps its just to outlandish. Do others here enjoy there 12 and 15th level PCs as much as they did when they were 5th?

[northrundicandus]

My favorite levels as a player are the 6th - 8th level range. Your character is much harder to kill due to unlucky die rolls - but there are still lots of challenges left in the world.

As a DM, I've never had a party make it past 10th level. They end up doing something stupid and get wiped out.

[Axe Mental]

Well, we do have some high level PCs floating around. I always thought this was the great problem with Gygaxian AD&D, what do you do with those PCs that attain high level. And why should that really matter.

Maybe its that you don't increase in levels much after 12th.
It's kind of like playing a demi-human thats maxed out. Part of the point seems to be gone. I know its not supposed to be that way, but the reality is it is.

[Scott]

It's been a long time since I have had any high-level PCs in my group. I really enjoy that power level. Around 20th level I might consider retiring a character, but I'd have a lot of fun up til then.
Scott

[Axe Mental]

You know, maybe its a lack of mastery of our DMing, it's difficult to run high level games, keeping up with spells, magical items, potions breaking, hit point tallies, and then there's always the fear of loosing your precious PC. The one you've had since high school. If your afraid to risk these powerhouse PCs there's not much use in playing. I think Gene said at the lost dungeon, something like.."all player characters are destined to be great or die a glorious death", its much easier to take those risks with PCs you haven't had as long. And then once they have that glory you can't really get that much more glory.

Still, it would be neat to sit for a high level game with ScottyG or EGG to see if they wield the monsters and mayhem as well as they likely do at low levels. I know our high level games move stiffly.

[Scott]

Campaigning at that level is very different. It almost becomes like a Diplomacy game in addition to the standard adventure stuff. Two players and a DM seem to work best at that level. My friend Brian would play anytime though, with just him and his henchmen, or as many players as we could round up. He lived across the street from me and I think we played almost every day for months on end. He's in Iraq now. He left just as his cleric of Saint Cuthbert began work on a stronghold. Just before that, my friend Paul's PC assassinated him and his henchmen to steal some magic item. He didn't plan it very well though, and did nothing to prevent raise dead, so a few days later the raised Cedric (the cleric), his henchmen, and the ranger Ferris (another PC) tracked him and the assassin down, killed them, got their magic back, and burned the bodies.
Scott

[GT]

I agree with you Lads on several points: It is harder to run PC's at higher levels. And I feel that if characters are high level, it's more fun with only 2 or 3. I have a Bard and an Elven Fighter-MU in my campaign who are high level, and we still have fun. Frankly, we don't worry about XP's as much anymore, so any "levelling up" is dragged out. There are more politics, since both of those PC's have castles and land to keep up, and they sometimes treat with regional nobility over this or that. What I generally do with them is I have opponent NPC's of comparable level that give them grief. And I might let them run into the Tarrasque for example, but I leave myself an out such that I don't TPK the PC's or lose a Tarrasque (since they're hard to come by...) And though they know better than to challenge a deity (besides perhaps a demon lord) face-to-face (no "Epic " crap in my Greyhawk, citizens!), they might cause the being some sort of setback, which in turn would spin off some future encounters.

[GRWelsh]

Although it is a Forgotten Realms-based PC game, one of the things I really like about Baldur's Gate II and Throne of Bhaal is the way the higher level campaign is handled. Yes, it's 2nd edition, too, I know... But still, it's great fun to play all of the higher level characters and cast spells like time stop, meteor swarm, cacodemon, wish, etc.

In standard pencil and paper games, I think certain classes get boring to play at higher levels: fighters and thieves hit a plateau at some point, where it just seems like they don't improve that much anymore. Unfortunately, that is right around where magic-users start getting very powerful, and a lot of fun to play... but make headaches for DM's, because they can get so damn powerful.

[Axe Mental]

Q: "In standard pencil and paper games, I think certain classes get boring to play at higher levels: fighters and thieves hit a plateau at some point, where it just seems like they don't improve that much anymore. Unfortunately, that is right around where magic-users start getting very powerful, and a lot of fun to play... but make headaches for DM's, because they can get so damn powerful. "

Thats an interesting point. I remember one player really getting pissed when his high level fighter got taken apart with magic missles from a high level MU. This is dependent on situation I suppose, but yeah, Fighters have problems one on one with a wizard if he has room to fly etc.

[grodog]

My favorite levels to DM PCs are 1-3, 4-7, 8-12, 15-19, and 21-24

Actually, I really enjoy the lower through upper mid-levels (3-10), and while high level games are harder to run and prepare, I really enjoy play at any level. When PCs have stacked contingencies and resurrection wishes, that's fine by me, since they're using all of the tools and resources that they have at their disposal.

I really find that using the planes helps to challenge high-level PCs, although I like them enough to use them at much lower levels than is considered safe or normal by most DMs