Ernie"s World Adventure is Available

[geneweigel]

www.facebook.com/691103975/posts/pfbid0rm98CCdokRSSqBneuG12kjGoH8zsHRCq8hprHPkLSHGp6gF3xUFoKpMkpyRPzShbl/?mibextid=RtaFA8

That's a hell of a sticker shock for me so I'm going to wait on it.

[GRWelsh]

Yep, I saw this, too. It looks like it is $150 for the print version from Troll Lord Games. That's pricey for a single gaming item. But it appears to not just be a module any longer but also a gazetteer detailing the setting and wilderness with multiple areas to adventure in. Is this supposed to be the same "Hobby Shop Dungeon" of old from the late 1970's? I am assuming there is some sort of continuity between that old dungeon Ernie ran for years and Benoist's newer contributions. I guess one has to look at it as a collector's item and work of art and that it is worth supporting old school creative efforts. Of course I will have to get it eventually but right now I'm focusing on finishing my Christmas shopping for everybody else. Maybe after Christmas I will splurge and get this for myself.

[geneweigel]

His brother, Luke, seems to have a world as well but I'm not sure what is what there. It's a shame that there isn't a guideline for authentic fans that validates these things.

I haven't spoken to Ernie since his hospital trip as I consider my very non-glib type talk irritating in such a circumstance. So I'm going to wait to get the dirt.

[geneweigel]

Especially with the news that the Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum thing (that we went to) is a total failure (People are saying it's for sale for $5 million but I can't find a link.).

[geneweigel]

I just recalled the talk of the many donations when I was at the museum looking at the shelves. YIKES!

I hope this resolves in a good way at least for Ernie's sake.

Heh... I still can't believe that I said Star Frontiers sucked a few months back and totally forgot that Ernie's associated company "TSR" was publishing it. This is a flashback moment where I had literally told Gary that Elmore sucked and then he talked me down so later on I was all "give Larry a chance". So at GenCon 2002, my interaction with Larry was that he didn't even know what the "World of Larry Elmore" thing that I had just bought into for $60 plus. Resetting my original sentiment. I think that I will give SF another chance... Oh wait I threw all related SF in the trash...

[GRWelsh]

The Dungeon Hobby Shop Museum never had a strong business model to begin with. It was a niche interest museum with $2 entry, a few knickknacks to sell (old TSR themed dice, patches, T-shirts, etc.), and occasional gaming fees coming in if Ernie or other prominent sorts ran games. That isn't a winning proposition. That's the sort of thing you do for love, not for money. Still, it might have done okay for what it was considering being located at the birth place of D&D and adjacent to the seasonal success of GARY CON. But it was damned by association to the NuTSR controversy and so even many old school gamers shunned it. Without getting to much into it, I think the NuTSR controversy can be summed up as as a warning about who you go into business with... Also, publicly being a culture warrior (at best) or bigot (at worst) isn't usually good for business.

[geneweigel]

I honestly don't understand the business part even the other "TSR" was not satisfying. Hopefully after 3 strikes (Lorraine Dille, Gygax mag, & now the tattoo guy) fake TSRs will be done with but I don't hold out any hopes.

[foster1941]

Nov 30, 2023 10:12:56 GMT -5 GRWelsh said:

Yep, I saw this, too. It looks like it is $150 for the print version from Troll Lord Games. That's pricey for a single gaming item. But it appears to not just be a module any longer but also a gazetteer detailing the setting and wilderness with multiple areas to adventure in. Is this supposed to be the same "Hobby Shop Dungeon" of old from the late 1970's? I am assuming there is some sort of continuity between that old dungeon Ernie ran for years and Benoist's newer contributions. I guess one has to look at it as a collector's item and work of art and that it is worth supporting old school creative efforts. Of course I will have to get it eventually but right now I'm focusing on finishing my Christmas shopping for everybody else. Maybe after Christmas I will splurge and get this for myself.

It's Yggsburgh & The East Mark to the Hobby Shop Dungeon's Castle Zagyg - it provides a new world/setting in which the HSD is ostensibly located and the actual 70s-vintage HSD was going to follow as part 2 of the series, which may still happen someday but nobody seems to be talking about it anymore. As far as I know the material in this set was all newly created by Benoist in the 2010s and has nothing at all to do with the games Ernie and Terry Kuntz ran at the Dungeon Hobby Shop back in the 70s (and that I believe Ernie still runs at cons). Which isn't to say it might not still be good (the art and maps certainly all look terrific) but it's not the sort of "window into the past" that I think people were hoping for.

[geneweigel]

I had a light chat with Ernie about some stuff that I'm working on to cheer him up. He is on borrowed time.

[GRWelsh]

Thanks for the details. It seems despite being named the "Hobby Shop Dungeon Marmoreal Tomb Campaign Starter" this product is only conceptually linked to the "Hobby Shop Dungeon" that Ernie ran back in the 1970's at the the TSR Hobby Shop but is moreso an expansion on the "Marmoreal Tomb of Garn Pat'uul" that Ernie and Benoist worked on together and published in GYGAX Magazine issue #3. I've seen the laminated maps of Ernie's original dungeon and it looks like the Dungeon Geomorphs with rooms and passages everywhere to fill up each sheet of graph paper. Evidently these are two completely different things. Perhaps Ernie and Benoist at one time planned to collaborate to get the old Hobby Shop Dungeon into a publishable form, and what resulted was the Marmoreal Tomb with surrounding campaign setting mostly written by Benoist and finished off by the Troll Lords.

It's a bit confusing.

I like the aesthetic of Ben's maps, and I like the way he draws and colors everything -- it has that old school, home-made style that I like, yet at the same time appears professional and polished. But I'm just not sure I if that is worth $150 if I'm not also paying for a piece of gaming history. It sort of looks like Ernie is more of an idea man and a promoter than co-author/designer of this project.

[geneweigel]

I don't get the "Kickstarter" things at all. Did the long awaiting fundraisers get their copy and now the rest of us have to pay $99?

I really don't have the bread to lay down especially when I should be blowing money on getting my own stuff finished that I'm getting at least an e-mail a day about when anything is coming out (Broken Castle is still selling at least once a week.)

The Ben character seems okay on Facebook but what do I know? Ernie says he wants people to remember him positively. So I have my fandom for Ernie but I just feel fatigued following through on endorsements or proxy products.

That literally has been a bad trend for my internet behavior even going back to "Eric Noah's Third Edition News Forum".

For example, I have had a love/hate soft spot for Troll Lords solely because of considering Gary's relationship with them. However, historically, giving people chances then they let you down sucks. TLG and their proxies (especially recently in the past few months, the less said the better) have had zero love for my criticisms. Its hard being critical in such a small "rpg universe" after all. I honestly feel like I was a salesman for some stuff that I would not have made myself so now looking back I feel bad that I convinced buyers into grabbing certain products. I was just so hyped that Gary was telling me what was going on behind the scenes. I should have been more critical of Gary's proxy efforts. I still haven't even used a lot of his latter adventures. To this day with exception of the infamous "Troll Lord midnight drunken death threat" I have never had any real communication with the Trolls yet at the same time looking at them right in the eye multiple times. (When I was at Gary Con I stumbled into the wrong room and it was a Troll Lord presentation and I did not have a ticket for it but I almost went in. It didn't feel right just taking someone's seat though. I should have and gotten it over with. Perhaps nipping that utter nonsense about their Dev forum, that I mentioned above, in the bud.)

[GRWelsh]

I think each backer was in for an average of $100 and waiting for 7 years from the time the Kickstarter was funded with various stretch goals achieved.

Here is a link to an interview with Benoist posted 11/30/2013 (over 10 years ago!) that sheds some light on how he and Ernie got together and what their initial plans for this whole thing were:

thebedrockblog.blogspot.com/2013/11/interview-benoist-poire.html

It's sad to perceive the enthusiasm and hopefulness when we know all of the stress and negativity that lay ahead. Hopefully the final product made it all worth it!

[geneweigel]

From my perspective on their effort, the problem with fantasy enthusiasts like myself is that we live in a fantasy world half the time. For example, mentally, I might be fighting a shit dragon in a dank sewer chamber of the town of Blackthrush while I'm physically, in real life, at a somber church prayer session then later I'll feel terrible for drifting off. Inject that into promises involving transactions already paid and I can imagine that its a hell pit.

I honestly hate taking money from people but I suppose it has to be done. I wish that I could help everything related to Gary's ongoing tribute but its too involved with all the transactions and people waiting in line for opportunities.

I feel like I need to make a free guide to Greyhawk eventually because the 50th anniversary of D&D is here and I feel that more attention is being paid to shit D&D like Mentzer bragging about "his stamp" this morning just made my brain snap.

[GRWelsh]

Ha! You just reminded me of when I was a kid in church. My body was a captive audience but my mind wandered around the shapes and geometry to set my imagination free. I counted the panels on the ceiling. I examined the curves and decor of the wooden church pews. My mind formed little towers and shapes out of the angles of the stained glass windows. That was around when I first got into fantasy fiction and D&D so I was always imagining these alternate worlds and structures and epic battles... I felt guilty about it later, but the repetitive sermons and hymns just droned on and on.

What would be a good thing to do for the 50th Anniversary of D&D? I was also thinking Greyhawk and maybe an homage to dungeon delving with some heraldry represented.

I don't really get Kickstarters, either. It appears that the main issue with Ernie's Kickstarter getting out of control was that they launched it prior to having most of the thing written. Then, when it funded, they were under all of this pressure to write it and develop all of the promised stretch goals as well. When the deadline to ship was missed, that created a not of negativity and made it even harder to finish.

[grodog]

Nov 30, 2023 10:12:56 GMT -5 GRWelsh said:

Yep, I saw this, too. It looks like it is $150 for the print version from Troll Lord Games. That's pricey for a single gaming item. [snip]
Is this supposed to be the same "Hobby Shop Dungeon" of old from the late 1970's?

I asked Benoist on FB about the set contents, and it sounds like it’s mostly the complete KS:

Allan Q: Benoist: so does this include all of the KS content, then?

Benoist A: Hi Allan. The box you see here contains the Main Module, its Appendices book, the Wilderness Expansion, the Underworld Expansion, and the 26 or so color maps that go with them. It's the dungeon, the extensions to the dungeon, the demi-planes inside it, the valley around it, a village and separate inn that could be used as bases, floating hexes you can use to set up encounters, full gazetteer of the region, all the factions and alignments at play, the random encounters, etc etc.

The two things that are not included are the Prismatic Maze, which was the KS exclusive, with remaining copies and PDF coming on sale a little bit later, and the Player's Guide booklets, which are 20-page-ish presentations of the larger world and character creation with a GP character sheet. These will be bundled a few copies toghether and sold on the TLG site too a little bit later.

For clarity, here’s a picture of the full KS contents, all laid out, too:
www.thebluebard.com/post/marmoreal-tomb-not-a-review

Nov 30, 2023 19:12:55 GMT -5 foster1941 said:

It's Yggsburgh & The East Mark to the Hobby Shop Dungeon's Castle Zagyg - it provides a new world/setting in which the HSD is ostensibly located
[snip]it's not the sort of "window into the past" that I think people were hoping for.

I didn’t support the KS for just this reason—like Yggsburgh, it’s not what I wanted, even if some pieces of Benoist’s designs seem interesting.

If they have copies at GaryCon, I’ll likely flip through them, to get an idea of what they look like, but it’s likely more content and $ than I want to spend.

Allan.