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Post by GRWelsh on May 10, 2021 12:43:05 GMT -5
What is everyone's opinion on this one? N1: Against the Cult of the Reptile God (1982) by Douglas Niles. This is one of those rare classic era AD&D modules I never owned or played, but since it is set in the World of Greyhawk and is for levels 1-3 I thought I should check it out to see if it is worth using. It is set near the Rushmoors, where I always vaguely imagined setting WITCHES COURT MARSHES by Judges Guild with some major witch antagonists for a long term campaign. The Rushmoors are also a possible location for the DMG Sample Dungeon. Its an area of the World of Greyhawk that I've never made use of, so it could be something fresh.
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Post by Scott on May 10, 2021 13:39:43 GMT -5
For the most part I like Doug Niles' stuff. I liked N1. Lots of role playing potential with this. Most of the initial adventure takes places in town. I remember it being likely that the PCs would need NPC help to complete the adventure, which players didn't like. And I think the amount of treasure and experience the players receive was small compared to the time invested.
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Post by geneweigel on May 12, 2021 7:51:11 GMT -5
I played it twice. Once in 82 and again in 1984 with DM aware that I had already played. It's alright it just isn't imaginative there is a more user-end feel (Not just Greyhawk but AD&D-wise) expect timidity.
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Post by GRWelsh on May 12, 2021 8:34:02 GMT -5
I like the investigative first part but I don't like the ramp up in difficulty in the last part with the assumption of a higher level NPC being required to help. That's a red flag. Most of my players are wary of NPCs in general (possible traitors, dislike splitting treasure further, etc.) and I prefer games to be about what players can do on their own. An end boss who can throw a fireball at a party of 1st level characters is a bit much. Perhaps they could encounter an NPC or monster who could tip them off as to what the end boss can do, so they are at least forewarned of the danger they are going into.
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Post by geneweigel on May 12, 2021 8:53:15 GMT -5
It's a feeling of a up in the air home campaign for sure rather than "the Game Wizards".
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Post by Scott on May 12, 2021 11:46:07 GMT -5
N1 is not really a campaign starter adventure. It's 4-7 PCs level 1-3, and it works better if you have PCs towards the the higher end, but then the small treasure return in a BtB XP, training costs, etc. game becomes even more pronounced.
True 1st level adventures can be tough to design. PCs are so fragile. Any one encounter can result in deaths or their resources being drained. Frequent trips to 'town' to rest and heal are required. The Basic paradigm of smaller dungeons closer to town for levels 1-3 is a good one. Removing the safe space or venturing too far away from it conflicts with what the rules assume will be going on. When you change that you have to add elements that nobody really likes (the required help of higher level NPCs) or you have to find ways to replace that safe space that are difficult to fit into your standard published module.
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Post by GRWelsh on May 12, 2021 12:21:17 GMT -5
It's a feeling of a up in the air home campaign for sure rather than "the Game Wizards". That's a positive for me as I'm always fascinated by what people do with the OD&D or AD&D system and their own homebrew campaigns and adventures. I much prefer that over the corporate polish and plot driven scenarios that seemed to dominate in the mid 80's and later. N1 is not really a campaign starter adventure. It's 4-7 PCs level 1-3, and it works better if you have PCs towards the the higher end, but then the small treasure return in a BtB XP, training costs, etc. game becomes even more pronounced. True 1st level adventures can be tough to design. PCs are so fragile. Any one encounter can result in deaths or their resources being drained. Frequent trips to 'town' to rest and heal are required. The Basic paradigm of smaller dungeons closer to town for levels 1-3 is a good one. Removing the safe space or venturing too far away from it conflicts with what the rules assume will be going on. When you change that you have to add elements that nobody really likes (the required help of higher level NPCs) or you have to find ways to replace that safe space that are difficult to fit into your standard published module. Agreed. The game works best with what it was designed for: frequent expeditions from a place of safety to a nearby mega-dungeon with limited to no organized resistance: creepy crawlies, humanoid scavengers, static traps, treasure to be found, and many features or mysteries to explore or interact with. I think it also explains why many of us have an endless interest in the original dungeons of Blackmoor and Greyhawk. |
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Post by Scott on May 12, 2021 13:39:54 GMT -5
Rob's Kalibruhn approach, where he had a couple of dungeon options, abandoned mines and temple ruins close to the starting town, is a good approach too, and one I think works better for AD&D where the one town, one big dungeon was no longer the assumed scope of the campaign world. You have that smaller sandbox where the PCs can establish themselves, but it's assumed that they will soon be moving on to explore more of the world.
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Post by GRWelsh on May 12, 2021 17:44:26 GMT -5
Yeah, I like the sandbox approach with some options for players and not necessarily any 'right' options but just whatever hooks their interest. As a DM, I like not knowing what is going to happen.
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Post by geneweigel on May 12, 2021 19:43:51 GMT -5
Most of the non-Gygax stuff feels user end for some reason. Especially the various TSR staff who came aboard with "winning" modules. It's like there is never any BTB gems.
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Post by GRWelsh on May 14, 2021 12:53:59 GMT -5
Considering using N1 got me to think about a region of the Flanaess I haven't ever been in as a DM or a player, except for S3 nearby in the Barrier Peaks. I remember a reference to a Lord of High Olvendom at Hocholve in S3 and also that elves live in the Dim Forest west of the Javan River in the Guide. Has anyone ever developed this area in more detail? Is Hochoch the same as Hocholve? Is Hochoch part of the Grand Duchy of Geoff? Seems kind of like a no-man's land, which I like. Farstead from "The Sword of Justice" would fit in nicely just south of the Dim Forest and perhaps as a lead in to N1.
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