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Post by Scott on Jul 22, 2016 21:53:58 GMT -5
I've been DMing for my cousin recently. His PC is a 13th level magic-user. It's really the first time I've had experience with extended high level campaign play. Advancement moves at a snail's pace now. My cousin is gaining big chunks of experience, and it's nothing. I think it's more likely you'll level by magical bumps than gaining all the experience required. I remember a few years ago somebody calculated all the treasure from the G series and I think used it to describe what a Monty Haul it was. You absolutely need treasure like that at those levels to make any progress. He still doesn't have a castle though, still no experience there. He blows his gold as soon as he gets it on writing scrolls and recharging wands. His three 7th level henchmen eat up the gold too.
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Post by geneweigel on Jul 23, 2016 13:33:37 GMT -5
Its true you have to roll for common sense treasure. The cheap nitpickers of yesterday have been buried by a status quo that doesn't even make sense. Anything that Gygax is referring to in AD&D is in reference to D&D treasure rewards. Not some freeform cheapness that got exponentially larger as soon as Gygax left the building. An orc could have a magical weapon and he is going to be a pretty hard orc to kill because he has been replaced several times by those who took it. So the magical weapon random orc has to wear plate and he has to be an apex type.
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Post by geneweigel on Jul 23, 2016 14:38:54 GMT -5
This is from 1974 D&D under Experience Points:
Now 7000 gp to me is a 1974 era net sum specific encounter or a 1974 era net sum lair encounter and not likely ever a 1974 era random encounter. Why not random? Its too much so it would have to a be a net sum specific encounter (room, caravan of monsters, etc.) however while I didn't say for me NEVER. Why? Because the troll could have a randomly rolled weapon or armor that is worth over 7000 gp and if that is the case then this is an amped up fight of chance being "broadcast" from the potential treasure of a nearby lair. Not a giveaway by any means.
Thats the mentality.
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Post by GRWelsh on Jul 23, 2016 17:42:46 GMT -5
"Monty Haul" in the D&D context is a very subjective idea, and implies a campaign with a DM who gives away "too much." But what is too much? I remember a kid in Junior High talking about his character who was a triple-classed gray elf cleric/fighter/magic-user with over 100 levels in each of those classes, and ruled a solar system and had an armada of starships... His older brother was his DM. Other kids laughed at this, because it seemed to so obviously be an example of what "too much" was... True, it couldn't possibly be considered "By the book" AD&D. But on the other hand, these brothers had a great time, and listening to their stories about their games was on an epic scale and more imaginative than a lot of other peoples' games.
What "Monty Haul" really seems to be about, isn't what someone subjectively thinks of as "too much" (treasure, magic items, power, or whatever) but whether the rewards come too easy relative to the challenge. And I think that was why EGG was always fiddling around with that xp to challenge ratio, and trying to come up with a set formula.
You might become gold-rich but still have to seek out challenges that will earn you decent x.p.!
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Post by Scott on Jul 23, 2016 20:24:20 GMT -5
I just finished running an adventure for Doug. His cleric and fighter both reached 7th level, and his monk is real close to 8th. It's winter, and he's going to spend the rest of winter in the lair of a silver dragon he befriended. In the spring three of his hippogriffs will be ready to ride. I was thinking for the next adventure the silver dragon tells him about a cloud island another silver dragon used to dwell on, but it's been taken over by something evil, He can go try to rid the island of the evil and claim it and the castle for his stronghold.
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Post by GRWelsh on Jul 23, 2016 21:50:20 GMT -5
Sounds great. Few things would be more memorable than winning your own cloud castle!
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Post by geneweigel on Jul 23, 2016 21:52:44 GMT -5
I don't even remember what my brother's half-gray elf was but I'm sure its documented somewhere. He drew his characters in what would later be known as Warhammer style with huge shoulder armor. I reimagined some of his NPCS for the character sheets at his request because he was sick of looking at his pin-eyed sketches. Unfortunately, about ten or so years ago, I had given every sheet and sketch of his characters back to him (including his hot off the press copy of FIEND FOLIO that I used for years) that I held for decades and he lost them within a week (substance-abusing grifter to put it lightly). The only things that I have of is his is the character from that weird writeup "Necronia" that was left in that folder, a module stapled together with his scribblings and the odd shared NPCs that were "usual mercs" for rounding out parties that he contributed to their making.
The gray elf was the one that every called the "Power Lord" ala the commercial for an Ideal toy. Nobody wanted that character involved in a game except me because I knew how to handle him with invitations to dimensional shit being delivered like room service to his castle and all out war against equally ruthless interdimensional enemies.
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Post by Scott on Jul 30, 2016 21:29:57 GMT -5
Sounds great. Few things would be more memorable than winning your own cloud castle! I haven't decided if that's where I'm going or not. Nobody's ever built a stronghold yet. I might still make him build one from scratch. And then maybe when his fighter henchman becomes a lord he can become castellan and Maylin can move to the sky.
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