Killed by a Vampire

[Scott]

If you're killed by a vampire, you can become an "appropriately strengthed vampire" under the control of your killer. It then goes on to discuss how this process can result in classed/leveled vampires. But what about non-classed victims? Are they full strength, half strength? What is appropriately strengthed?

[geneweigel]

Lakofka went on about it in an article called GOOD EVENING from 1979 that was reprinted in BEST OF DRAGON II but its all over the place and doesn't seem usable (as usual for him).

The only other solid reference outside the MONSTER MANUAL seems to be a DISPEL CONFUSION from POLYHEDRON #19 (1984) which said:

ADQ: Do PCs and NPCs who become vampires
retain their previous character classes? If
so, how do you calculate the vampire's hit
points? Does the creature keep the hit dice and
hit points it had in life , or must you use 8·3 hit
dice for all vampires as llisted in the Monster
Manual? At what level would it cast spells?
ADA: The DM should decide whether a vampire
will retain the character class and abilities it had
in life. If it does, it will keep its previous hit dice
and hit points, though it will no longer be able to
gain experience as such. Spells are cast at the
character's previous caster level.

[Scott]

The part about the class/level seems pretty clear in the MM. What I was wondering was is what happens to regular humans that get turned into vampires? If you're killed by a wight, you come back as a half strength wight. If you're killed by a vampire, would you be a half strength vampire, or a full strength vampire?

[geneweigel]

I should have said that the POLY is as close as it gets with its suggestion that its up to you.

To reiterate Lakofka does go on but its a slop fest where he makes remarks as to what he would do and it comes across "homestyle" and unGygaxian anyway. He refers to it as "lesser vampire" and its still sketchy despite the talk and stats he generates. Look:

The “Lesser” Vampire
Exactly what is a “lesser” Vampire (“. . . appropriately strengthed
vampire under control of its slayer.” AD&D Monster Manual, page 99)?
He or she is the monster created by a Full Vampire after killing/draining
the victim. This monster follows, to some degree, the rules set for
Negative Plane Undead.
If a Wight kills a figure, a “. . . half-strength wight under (its)
control . . .” will result. The same statement is made for the Wraith and
the Spectre. Yet, “If the vampire which slew the creature is itself killed,
the vampires created by it become free willed monsters.”
Somehow all of this must be quantified. First of all, the “lesser”
vampire is under the control of the Full Vampire even if killed by another
“lesser” vampire. As long as the Full Vampire maintains control, the
“lesser’s” will is subject to his/her command.
Now the questions arise; is the “lesser” vampire half-strength or not,
and if it is released to become “free willed” does it then grow to full
strength? I’d say that the Vampire is ¾ strength, and if control is lost the
vampire grows to Full Vampire status. To put this in rule form: A
“lesser” Vampire must be uncontrolled for 7 days before it will become
“free willed.” Thus, if the Full Vampire gives commands or is present
within 7 days the “lesser” vampire remains a “lesser” vampire. If the
“lesser” becomes “free willed” it will take two full days to grow to Full
Vampire status. Once it has “free will,” the Full Vampire can not regain
control, though it can have all of its statements take on the power of a
Suggestion which the new “free willed Vampire” can Save versus.
While this may seem like a contradiction of the “charm” rule, consider
the circumstances of the exchange and the existing relationship. Note
that the Full Vampire did not have to Charm the “lesser” vampire while
the “lesser” was still alive!
The statistics for the “lesser” Vampire are as follows; 6 + 2 hit dice,
A.C. 2, Move 12/18, Damage per attack 5-10; Special Attacks: Energy
Drain*; Special Defenses: +1 or better to hit but Silver does half
damage; Magic Resistance: As discussed in this article and as with a Full
Vampire.
The importance differences are due to the fact that the “lesser” does
not exist as strongly on the Negative Material Plane as the Full Vampire.
If uncontrolled, the “lesser” has the “free will” to gain full Negative
Plane access. Note the fewer hit dice. The Energy Drain of the “lesser”
vampire is one level, plus a 50% chance for a second level to be drained.
Note that Silver weapons do half damage. Finally, the “lesser” Vampire
IS subject to a Raise Dead spell, if it fails its saving throw versus magic.
The “lesser’s” former profession abilities are retained with the obvious
exceptions of those abilities defined by alignment. (There is no such
thing as a Vampire-Paladin.)
A “lesser” vampire’s physical strength is tied to its negative plane
existence, so a “lesser” vampire does have a physical strength of 18/76.
However, alignment and intelligence are open to some interpretation.
If the figure in life is stupid and foolish and his/her alignment is
neutral, lawful or good, the transition to becoming a Vampire should not
automatically change his/her intelligence or alignment. Obviously a
Vampire is evil, and that change is automatic. But a “lesser” vampire
can view evil from a lawful or neutral posture, at least initially. Eventually
he/she will become chaotic, but this could take a period of time. I allow
the monster a saving throw taken weekly to see if the alignment change
occurs.
Intelligence/Wisdom is another matter. If, in life, the figure is Smart
or Wise, then the resultant “lesser” vampire can have “exceptional”
intelligence of 15–16. If the figure is not too bright then the resultant
vampire should not be too bright either. The Vampire can acquire
“cunning,” but that should be worth no more than 2–8 points of
Intelligence or Wisdom.
I raise the subject of intelligence because if Vampires used all of their
intelligence and were lawful too, they likely would rule entire sections of
the planet, if not the entire planet! Played intelligently, a Vampire would
1) accumulate at least two coffins; 2) create a few “lessers” to “guard
the fort,” 3) use their charming powers to gain minions; 4) never fight
until melee does produce Forced Gaseous Form; and 5) use summoned
and charmed monsters to weaken opposition before the Full Vampire
him/herself enters the battle, etc.
A Vampire can go on for many hours picking away at a party before
a final outcome is assured, one way or the other. If a Vampire knows
his/her coffin is threatened and it is his/her last one, he/she will become
extremely clever. Yet before any Vampire makes a really clever defense,
the DM should have him/her make a saving throw to reflect his/her
chaotic nature. In this way, the party has a better chance.

On another note, the later SLAYERS GUIDE is useless in that regard because of the Third Edition leveling of non-adventurers. That would've been great though.

[Scott]

The Good Evening article does sound very off the cuff and convoluted.

[geneweigel]

Well according to this is the DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE page 119:

ENERGY DRAINING BY UNDEAD OR DEVICE
When a character loses a level of energy, he or she loses an experience
level. That is, he or she loses hit points equal to those gained with the acquisition
of the former experience level (including bonus points for constitution),
all abilities gained with the experience level now lost, and experience
points sufficient to bring the total possessed to the mid-point of
the next lower level. If this brings the character below 1st level of experience,
then the individual is a 0 level person never capable of gaining
experience again. If a 0 level individual is drained an energy level, he or
she is dead (possibly to become an undead monster). In order to allow for
the possibility of the loss of hit dice due to energy level draining, you
might require that players record the score of each hit die rolled for their
characters, so that when a level is lost the appropriate number of hit points
also lost can be known immediately.
A multi-classed character (or character with two classes) who is drained of
an experience level always loses the highest level he or she has gained
(e.g., a halfling 2nd level fighter/3rd level thief would lose one level of
thieving ability). If all levels are equal, the highest level of the class which
requires the greatest amount of experience points is lost. If a multi-classed
character (e.g., a fighter/magic-user) is struck by a creature which drains
two levels, a level is drained from each class.
When a character is drained of all energy levels, he or she might become
an undead monster of the same sort which killed him or her. (See the
appropriate paragraphs pertaining to the undead monsters concerned in
the MONSTER MANUAL.) These lesser undead are controlled by their
slayer/drainer. Each has but half the hit dice of a normal undead monster
of this same type. Lesser vampires have but half their former level of experience
with respect to their profession (cleric, fighter, etc.) at the time
they initially encountered and were subsequently slain/drained by their
now-master vampire, i.e., an 8th level thief killed by a vampire, even
though drained to below 0 level in the process, returns as a 4th level thief
vampire, as appropriate. However, upon the destruction of their
slayer/drainer, such lesser undead gain energy levels from characters
they subsequently slay/drain until they reach the maximum number of hit
dice (and their former level of class experience as well, if applicable)
appropriate to their type of undead monster. Upon reaching full hit dice
status, they are able to slay/drain and control lesser undead as they once
were.

So that would mean:

Mary the wench, Active female (DMG pg 88), with 1-4 hp and -1 combat ability would be now a 4HD lesser vampire.

Joe the Thief (7th level Sharper) would be now a 4HD lesser vampire/3rd level Cutpurse

Until they killed the source monster and drained sufficient levels to restore full vampire and full class:

Mary: 8 + 3 HD
Joe: 8 + 3 HD/7th level Sharper

[Scott]

That's just what I was looking for.

[geneweigel]

I started on a chart for drains by experience for all classes (UA included) based on this same passage and never got past three or for classes. I was just trying to fill it out as I was looking at it and got pooped entering the xp by level

[geneweigel]

the file is dated 2002, heh! ten years!

[Merkholz]

It seems as if an 8th-level fighter turned vampire would be a bit more powerful than the vampire maid. This could be measured by using the fighter's superior hit points (8d10 compared to 8d8+3). But should an 8th-level thief not have an edge over the maid? The thieving abilities wouldn't have much value to a creature that can turn gaseous or into a bat, with immunities to poison and a strength that can open most doors.

Is Drelnza the only high level vampire in print?

[geneweigel]

The vampire in Q1 QUEEN OF THE DEMONWEB PITS (1980) in the worlds of the demonweb had a class. Magic-user, if I'm recalling correctly.