dcas
Warlock
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Narnia
Dec 27, 2005 11:07:29 GMT -5
Post by dcas on Dec 27, 2005 11:07:29 GMT -5
So I've read a couple reviews of The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe and I find myself disturbed by the number of departures from the book. I had also told my kids I would take them to see it but after watching a couple of the trailers I decided against it. Many of the creatures (done by the same company, WETA, that did the creatures for The Lord of the Rings) look really deformed (one of my problems with LOTR). And the killing of Aslan looks stylized and ritualistic, which impression one doesn't really get from the book. Fine for adults, I guess, but too much for kids IMHO. So, instead, I bought the DVDs of the BBC production that was done in 1988-1990. Three DVDs are included -- the first is The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, the second is Prince Caspian and The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, and the third is The Silver Chair. We watched the first on Christmas Day and although it is campy it is pretty true to the book. The special effects are non-existent (some of the creatures are literally cartoons, Aslan looks like a big puppet, and the animals are just people in costumes), but my kids loved it.
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Falconer
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Narnia
Dec 28, 2005 1:15:25 GMT -5
Post by Falconer on Dec 28, 2005 1:15:25 GMT -5
Well, as a purist to the Tolkien books I absolutely hated the LotR movies, but as an equal purist of the Narnia books I thought the LWW movie was pretty decently done. It's worth a look for yourself, perhaps alone before you bring the kids. There are a few Jacksonisms and a few "hah-hah" jokes, but many very beautiful things about it, too.
I didn't much care for the BBC ones, though they were okay too. My favorite is still the cartoon LWW movie. It's still perhaps the most faithful version. Regards.
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Narnia
Dec 28, 2005 1:33:20 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Dec 28, 2005 1:33:20 GMT -5
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
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Narnia
Dec 28, 2005 7:12:10 GMT -5
Post by GT on Dec 28, 2005 7:12:10 GMT -5
Yeah, that's the one. I have an old copy on VHS...
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dcas
Warlock
Duke of Pennsylvania, Knight Commander
Posts: 481
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Narnia
Dec 28, 2005 9:51:03 GMT -5
Post by dcas on Dec 28, 2005 9:51:03 GMT -5
Well, as a purist to the Tolkien books I absolutely hated the LotR movies, but as an equal purist of the Narnia books I thought the LWW movie was pretty decently done. It's worth a look for yourself, perhaps alone before you bring the kids. There are a few Jacksonisms and a few "hah-hah" jokes, but many very beautiful things about it, too. I'm a purist, too, and while I wasn't initially put off by the LOTR movies I've since grown to dislike them intensely. (I don't think I could make a better movie, but then I'm not a professional movie director; and I do think I could make a more faithful one ). I never even bothered to see The Return of the King. I was really put off by the way in which Treebeard, Theoden, and Faramir -- the last especially -- were portrayed in The Two Towers. Is it true that in the LWW movie that Peter is portrayed as the "reluctant leader" (similar to Aragorn in the LOTR movies)? That would be quite enough to put me off. And I know Father Christmas's line about battles being ugly when women fight has been purged. Lewis had very clear ideas about chivalry and it would be a pity if the movie did not portray those ideas accurately.
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Falconer
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Narnia
Dec 28, 2005 17:37:38 GMT -5
Post by Falconer on Dec 28, 2005 17:37:38 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but I think you had better go see it for yourself to answer those criticisms. None of them are particularly black and white to answer. Certainly Aragorn's "reluctant leader" internal struggle in the movies stood out shockingly to me, but definitely not so with Peter. If anything, they show him right from the beginning as "too bossy" (from Edmund's perspective). Maybe I was so jaded from LotR that LWW's failings seemed miniscule in comparison, or maybe I just had enough will to like it because my wife was sitting next to me in the cinema ready to smack me every time I groaned...
Thanks for that link to the cartoon movie. Yeah, that WAS a good movie! Very faithful to the book, I think. I guess it depends on whether you like that animation style. Regards.
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dcas
Warlock
Duke of Pennsylvania, Knight Commander
Posts: 481
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Narnia
Dec 28, 2005 17:53:11 GMT -5
Post by dcas on Dec 28, 2005 17:53:11 GMT -5
I see the cartoon is based on the American version of the book in which Maugrim is named "Fenris Ulf." I thought I imagined the name for the longest time (I remembered his name from years before, but the copy I have now reads "Maugrim") -- it was just a couple of days ago that I read about this change in the US version (which Lewis apparently made himself).
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
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Narnia
Dec 28, 2005 19:24:53 GMT -5
Post by GT on Dec 28, 2005 19:24:53 GMT -5
Ouch!! So much dissin' of the LOTR!!!!
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Falconer
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Narnia
Dec 28, 2005 19:50:28 GMT -5
Post by Falconer on Dec 28, 2005 19:50:28 GMT -5
Just don't get me started on the LotR movies. I'm really restraining myself, here.
But, hey, Serenity is cool, huh? Regards.
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GT
Wizard
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Narnia
Dec 28, 2005 19:59:56 GMT -5
Post by GT on Dec 28, 2005 19:59:56 GMT -5
Well, I'm a reader of said series since the 70's, and I liked 'em because at least they brought the series out to a whole new generation with the majority of the story right (even without Tom Bombadil... or was that Tim Benzedrine???). And yes, Serenity is cool... ^__^
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dcas
Warlock
Duke of Pennsylvania, Knight Commander
Posts: 481
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Narnia
Dec 29, 2005 9:09:52 GMT -5
Post by dcas on Dec 29, 2005 9:09:52 GMT -5
Ouch!! So much dissin' of the LOTR!!!! You should see all the dissin' I did over at Dragonsfoot. Look, I understand that certain changes need to be made for the sake of dramatization. For example, I agreed with the old animated LOTR's makers to combine the characters of Glorfindel and Legolas. I also understand that things have to be left out so that the movies aren't too long. (Even if someone will sit still for 4 hours, the longer a movie runs the fewer times per day a theater can show it.) What I don't understand is the changes made for the sake of change, the scenes added without reason, or the needless character assassinations. Why do the hobbits have to convince Treebeard to make an assault on Isengard? Why is Theoden so wishy-washy? Why is Faramir's character so contrary to the noble character of the books?
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Narnia
Dec 29, 2005 11:12:45 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Dec 29, 2005 11:12:45 GMT -5
The cash that made all those armies come to life has to have a potential mass market interest and these film types follow a formula to appeal to certain types of people's personas. Apparently the Tom Bombadils of the world don't go to the movies much...
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
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Narnia
Dec 29, 2005 18:17:41 GMT -5
Post by GT on Dec 29, 2005 18:17:41 GMT -5
Tom Bombadil was probably the character I could relate to most in the Books, but I can see why with time constraints that he would be left out...
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Narnia
Dec 29, 2005 19:04:25 GMT -5
Post by Scott on Dec 29, 2005 19:04:25 GMT -5
As a movie, I liked FotR. Nothing really rubbed me too bad, I gave it some slack for time constraints, etc. I wasn't so happy with the next two. Even disregarding the books, and taking them as stand-alone movies, I was disappointed. I like the first Conan movie, but only if I pretend it's something not related to anything else. It's a terrible 'Conan' movie. I haven't read LWW in 25 years, so I won't have the 'faithful to the book' distraction, I'll be able to just watch it as a stand-alone movie.
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Narnia
Dec 30, 2005 0:00:11 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Dec 30, 2005 0:00:11 GMT -5
I think the subtler nuggets of Tolkien are what I really enjoy: Bill Ferny the scumbag in Bree, the orc dialogues in Two Towers and the epilogue stories in Return of the King.
Narnia, its been so long since I read the series that I really need to give a fresh approach to appreciating it. Its definitely had an influence on me though.
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dcas
Warlock
Duke of Pennsylvania, Knight Commander
Posts: 481
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Narnia
Dec 30, 2005 9:27:03 GMT -5
Post by dcas on Dec 30, 2005 9:27:03 GMT -5
Tom Bombadil was probably the character I could relate to most in the Books, but I can see why with time constraints that he would be left out... Heh. . . . I'm not crazy about Tom Bombadil myself, but those three chapters of 'Fellowship' are among my favorites. I think there's a certain 'Gygaxian' flavor to the Old Forest, the River Withywindle, Old Man Willow, Bombadil, Goldberry, and the Barrow-downs. It's the most fairy-tale-like part of the book IMO -- it could have come straight out of the Brothers Grimm. (And I know that Gary has been influenced by fairy tales . . . he recommends the 'Fairy Books' edited by Andrew Lang to everybody.)
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dcas
Warlock
Duke of Pennsylvania, Knight Commander
Posts: 481
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Narnia
Dec 30, 2005 9:30:50 GMT -5
Post by dcas on Dec 30, 2005 9:30:50 GMT -5
Narnia, its been so long since I read the series that I really need to give a fresh approach to appreciating it. Its definitely had an influence on me though. Try reading it to your kids. Mine love it, even when they don't quite understand everything. My daughter's heard the whole thing, we're working our way through it again (midway through The Magician's Nephew). But I think we may take a break soon, she just got the third book in the Prydain series.
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Falconer
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Narnia
Jan 2, 2006 0:07:41 GMT -5
Post by Falconer on Jan 2, 2006 0:07:41 GMT -5
I heartily recommend original published order over internal chronological order for Narnia, certainly for anyone's first reading.
1. The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe 2. Prince Caspian: The Return to Narnia 3. The Voyage of the Dawn Treader 4. The Silver Chair 5. The Horse and His Boy 6. The Magician's Nephew 7. The Last Battle
Of course, I generally believe that for any series, as the evolution and exposition of ideas and style is of far superior importance to the subjective treatment of the tales as a "chronicle" in that sense. Regards.
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
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Narnia
Jan 2, 2006 7:01:59 GMT -5
Post by GT on Jan 2, 2006 7:01:59 GMT -5
Well, here I concur with you, lad!
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dcas
Warlock
Duke of Pennsylvania, Knight Commander
Posts: 481
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Narnia
Jan 2, 2006 9:16:40 GMT -5
Post by dcas on Jan 2, 2006 9:16:40 GMT -5
I don't get too hung up on the reading order as long as one reads The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe first and The Last Battle, well, last. I don't recommend reading The Magician's Nephew first because it gives away the game with respect to the wardrobe, the lamp post, etc.
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