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Post by geneweigel on Dec 15, 2007 10:31:19 GMT -5
Anyway (although I can't recall specifically what those tier-like spans were in SEA OF DEATH) the fact is that most of the action in the city is enclosed to the elements. This must factor into their architecture. Not unlike Florence or Venice, Italy's medieval covered "bridges" connecting buildings. So the SB temple complex might look like a giant "hamster habitrail" in shape (not opacity!) this might also play into their hidden and secretive nature as well.
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Wizard
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Post by GT on Dec 15, 2007 10:36:36 GMT -5
Also, as xenophobes, WALLS!!! LOTS OF WALLS!!!!!
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ghul
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Post by ghul on Dec 15, 2007 10:36:52 GMT -5
GT: I see the Scarlet Brotherhood as isolationist, racist, and selfish, but I never thought to make all Suel this way. The barbarians of the north, for example, and the freckled Suel of the jungles south -- I never quite imagined them as subscribing to the "Suel ideal" you note.
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Wizard
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Post by GT on Dec 15, 2007 10:39:43 GMT -5
You are correct to some extent, but check out that excerpt from the Greyhawk Gazeteer GW posted above...
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 15, 2007 11:13:14 GMT -5
Yes, the Barbarian states are all CN on the alignment graph however CE maybe worse than their LE down there its all over up there: And if you really want to compare/contrast. The Suel barbarian states are the same color as the Scarlet Brotherhood. Also, note what I said about Lakofka "accentuating the positive" and then look at the environs of the "L" series compared to this alignment map.
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 15, 2007 11:27:02 GMT -5
I remember arguing with that so-called "GH expert" (who Rob did stuff with) about Greyhawk City's alignment and he insisted that map said Lawful good! He couldn't "get it" that the arrow meant all the alignments because Sargent didn't "get it". Even after, I pointed out the color on the above map and the magazine article on language as "any", he insisted that I was retroactively changing things according to what Gary told me. How can I have come out of nowhere screaming about this shit and then ran into Gary Gygax after that? WHUH? Oh, yeah...7 years later...he's still doing it...
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Wizard
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Post by GT on Dec 15, 2007 11:34:55 GMT -5
Heh! We know it can't be lawful good---its Lord Mayor was a thief by profession; and Clerics of evil deities, as well as the Guildmasters of Thieves and Assassins, are all Oligarchs! Sheesh! What leap of logic is needed there? ^__^
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Wizard
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Post by GT on Dec 15, 2007 11:39:45 GMT -5
Speaking of Greyhawk, I always saw Zilchus as a popular deity there, but sadly all original GH material is rather quiet on this Greater God. I rather see him as a somewhat rotund deity dressed in finery and rings, perhaps with a well-groomed mustache and a foppish hat... Any takers on a vision of this deity?
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Post by Scott on Dec 15, 2007 11:44:30 GMT -5
The giveaway with the map is the color guide that goes along with the symbol. The medium-ness of Greyhawk should make it obvious that the arrow referred to more than just the LG symbol.
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Wizard
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Post by GT on Dec 15, 2007 11:47:28 GMT -5
Going back a couple of spots... it's amazing how many things were gotten in the wrong context, by otherwise good writers. Yes, I'll point a finger at a few: Roger Moore, Jeff Grubb, Monte Cook, Carl Sargent, even Erik Mona at times. I originally assumed that the differences were either ordered or intentional for the most part; but some really do seem accidental misreadings in hindsight. I mean, even myself and my buddies at 18 to 21 years of age looked at some of this and said: "That just doesn't fit right, somehow..."
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 15, 2007 11:55:09 GMT -5
Merchantly like Asmodeus' pectoral finery. Victor "King Tut" Buono does sort of come to mind. ZIlch (thats what I call him, we're pals) is the most potent deity in the world of D&D as it should be played. He is the key to getting players to places like the Scarlet Brotherhood. NO!!! Not plopped down out of nowhere big treasure greed!!! COMMERCE!!! Everybody's got commerce and that is the shoe in the door for all these "fucked" places. HS even has it but its "unknown" contrasted to "nothing". Sure, Iuz exports electrum and furs but the SB is THE major exporter (compare its size) to the entire continent. BTW, I heard they've even got a "Starbucknard's" in the enclosed shopping district called the "DUNGEON AT THE BROTHERY" in their downtown area. Just kidding!
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 18, 2007 11:38:29 GMT -5
The AoE chapter 4 gives alignments to the branches of the Scarlet Brotherhood (Thieves CE, Assassins NE, and Monks LE) and briefly mentions their evil deities as being known (and Tharizdun being secret)and describes the leaders as not just monks but wicked clerics, cavaliers and magic-users.
It also states the the racial thing is a cover to distract others from knowing that they serve Tharizdun.
Its on pages 50-51
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Wizard
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Post by GT on Dec 18, 2007 18:19:41 GMT -5
?? Vas ist "AoE"??
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 18, 2007 18:40:00 GMT -5
AoE? It means Ass of E. Gary Gygax.... GREYHAWK ADVENTURES: ARTIFACT OF EVIL by Gary Gygax (1986).
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Wizard
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Post by GT on Dec 18, 2007 18:45:07 GMT -5
How ironic! I pulled that off of the shelf to re-read this morning... I just finished re-reading "City of Hawks" and decided to go back... ^__^
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 19, 2007 14:09:40 GMT -5
The captured monk is very racist and it is implied that the average member isn't aware of the Tharizdun thing.
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Post by geneweigel on Dec 19, 2007 14:15:19 GMT -5
So the big T need not even be touched in the instance that the SB carried on after the rise and fall of big T in the current era. They'd have their urge to put Suel back into prominence in the racist way that they've been doing and they still have their chief evil deities who we can assume are GG's and may even be the epitomies of an LE monk, a NE assassin and a CE thief. Then throw an LE quasi-deity Suel monk on top.
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Post by geneweigel on May 8, 2008 9:54:30 GMT -5
I recalled something the other day. In SEA OF DEATH the pygmies there were referred with the a remark about the SB:
That implies that the Suel are the nobility in the SB and the rest are not necessarily Suel.
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Wizard
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Post by GT on May 8, 2008 17:23:08 GMT -5
It might reply to the "masters" of the hirelings (mages, men-at=arms, etc.) and humanoid troops as well...
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Post by Scott on May 24, 2010 13:01:27 GMT -5
I guess this was the thread I was thinking of, but it doesn't sau anything about Nerull.
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