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Post by Scott on Nov 2, 2008 12:43:06 GMT -5
This entity is starting off on a bad note, in my opinion. I'm still hopeful that we'll see some good-quality Gary material, but the decisions they've made so far don't sit well.
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 2, 2008 14:22:45 GMT -5
Yes, I agree, it makes me wonder why i'm even interested in whats going to come out. The Troll boys got screwed, I'll give em that, hands down. Since Gary defended them to me time and again I hardly think that there would be any problem with their current course (e.g. delivering CZ as promised by Gary). So the redo of Gary's company behooved that staunch partnership lauded by Mr G. I have several e-mails where he swears by them so I can't look at the Troll Lords as anything but good friends through Gary Gygax for all time. Sure, I may have a sharp tongue about criticisms but that wouldn't be me if I didn't say what I was thinking. Nobody wants to say anything bad at this point but we've been fickle by default. If we're not fickle then who are we? I'd give the new company some time to do the right thing by all but they've already showed the "need for greed" by cracking the friendly means of production for something unknown and I'm kind of being loose about it. But these TLG fans break my resolve with their honest complaints. Despite my disregard for C&C, those bastards should have got what they were promised by Gary. So I can totally stand by them. If this goes "fourth" or wonky in some other way then all my loose feelings are going to freeze into something else. I have a feeling that we're going to enter into an "L. Sprague DeCamp pastiche era" to try to raise interest in Gary's work in the mass media (i.e.: "LADY CAT: GORDINA THE ROGUE SLAYER") and I might just make a big u-turn and get the hell off the first off ramp I see on this Gygax fandom highway...
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Post by GRWelsh on Nov 2, 2008 14:23:45 GMT -5
What decisions have they made so far? Do you mean something other than letting Jeff go, and/or removing Castle Zagyg from the Troll Lords?
At first I wasn't thrilled about Gary publishing Castle Zagyg in the C&C rules. But in retrospect, it was the best choice. And now that Yggsburgh and the Upper Works have already been published under that system, it would be a serious error of judgment to not complete the series under this rules system.
C&C is the closest "live" system to AD&D, and Gary knew this. It was the best possible compromise as far as having a viable publishing option yet also giving the old grognardly fans (us) what we wanted.
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 2, 2008 14:33:25 GMT -5
Thats about it, the silence 15,000,000,000,000,000' radius spell is the only thing so far.
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Nov 2, 2008 14:53:32 GMT -5
So far, the only news I saw was that Mongoose Games is doing LA. As far as CZ and its format, the fans (ie--those who would buy the product) clamor for C&C, OSRIC or 1E AD&D, so it's fair to assume it'll be one of those (despite the fact of Spenser's affiliation with LA, that system just won't do for CZ!).
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Nov 2, 2008 14:55:13 GMT -5
Whoever does it, I would very much like to see a reprint of the City of Yggsburgh source book with all of the errors corrected--in particular, the monetary system! ^__^
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 2, 2008 15:03:03 GMT -5
That and the 3e/4e wolves are on the warpath and they've got scent of blood already.
Let's face it, this could very be the last straw for classic Greyhawk fandom. Our "patron saint" is no more and his legacy is up in the air. What happens next might just be the curtain call of all our hopes. We alway had his "taste" to rely on in whatever he did but now we're just going to get what someone else's memory of his "taste" was. They're certainly going to tread lightly from now on and that can't be good. Gary always did a "Teddy Roosevelt", how can his absence do anything but subtract from that?
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Post by Scott on Nov 2, 2008 15:31:37 GMT -5
It's not just the CZ stuff. GG yanked everything from TLG. I was told a while ago that it looked like the Trolls would be losing everything, and that the products would be shopped around looking for the highest bidders. That seems to be the way things are moving.
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 2, 2008 16:36:21 GMT -5
Well, that doesn't seem too promising. Doesn't seem theres anymore to be said about it then over there at least as the endless wall of apple polishers will soon be in place and I can't stand dealing with that.
I'll sign a petition if it comes around though but that won't do much I'm sure.
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Post by Scott on Nov 2, 2008 16:38:05 GMT -5
I guess I'm trying to keep an open mind about things until the official word comes out.
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 3, 2008 9:11:16 GMT -5
Yeah, I just lost interest in hanging around waiting to see who's going to show up with a big pile of cash and then dealing with the aftermath of adapted stances. I'd rather just wait til Castle Greyhawk comes out and hear the reviews at this point before putting any purchase that way. I kind of got swept up in some naive notion that they were breaking ties amicably to do it in first edition style but who the heck was I kidding? All I see now over there are burn victims and I'm lining up for the pits like an asshole...
If it happens it happens I don't even care. I do think my interest in new Troll Lord stuff has been raised by all this (after all they delivered CZ) and I look forward to seeing the new version of Gaxmoor.
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Post by Scott on Nov 3, 2008 9:21:17 GMT -5
I didn't want to bring this up on the G-G boards, but it seems telling that Ernie and Luke Gygax are going to be working with TLG and not Gygax Games.
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 3, 2008 9:55:47 GMT -5
Well, that is good. From my interactions with them I think Ernie and Luke are very creative people. I've had more dialogue with Ernie and he has the mindset to deliver exactly what D&D should have had for it. Plus he doesn't have that "anything goes" mentality that so pervasively but me off track for so long (q.v. my bad "business" ventures, etc.). I think all he needs is more encouragement to pen to paper.
I for one will buy anything that he does even pre-order if need be.
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Rhuvein
Magician
Beware . . Mjolnir
Posts: 228
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Post by Rhuvein on Nov 3, 2008 18:07:46 GMT -5
Somebody had a post (I think it was on the GGs forum) that contained some thoughts that I had with regard to financial reasons for the moves that GGs is making. I didn’t really want to respond over there. The main reason was - Gary was very ill off and on, for the last several years and perhaps they racked up medical bills. Not hard to do even with good insurance. So, by shopping around for another publishing/distributor, she might very well wish to pay off debts and generally set herself for retirement as well as provide as much as she can for Alex. Not a darn thing wrong with that. I’ve also thought that as much as I like the Trolls, there seemed to be too many products in progress and many were lagging. I’m not thinking CZ per se, but all of Gary products that were in the works now and going forward. By Gail, going with a large publisher (Mongoose), that seems to make sense. They can move quickly and publish a lot of product, thus bringing in the revenue faster than TLG could have. Also, there is the angle that Gary’s IP/products might be worth more than the Trolls could afford to pay Gary. GGS might cut a much better deal with other larger publishers.
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 3, 2008 18:58:40 GMT -5
Still...we're screwed anyway you look at it...
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Nov 3, 2008 19:14:24 GMT -5
Heh! And there was the "editing" issues. Gary told Stephen that he might talk to me for editing, and Stephen sent me an e-mail acknowledging Gary had spoken to him. ^__^ At any rate, I love the Trolls (I especially like Stephen!), and have since I met them. I also have a favorable relationship with Gail--for many years; so I'm kinda biased both ways. I think that releasing Jeff from the CZ project was shabby, and if I have any influence yet whatsoever, I'd see him back! One of the unknown quantities for me is Spenser... he was an LA guy, and some of the folks from the LA boards refer to him as an "opportunist", for what exact reasons I don't know. Bottom line, though: if CZ is done in any format other than a 1E-compatible (this does not include 3E or 4E!), you can bet that there will be flame wars galore! That kinda thing brought 2E down (and perhaps, ultimately, 3E, too...). I guess that I'm with Scott for now, and will watch developments before I disparage either way... ^__^
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 4, 2008 11:00:51 GMT -5
I don't know, a communication disruption can mean only one thing... Invasion. I've got to stop saying that. That movie sucked! Well, except for that line... Seriously, I hope you're right, I really do. Because just one of those things managed to wipe out my entire crew in less than 24 hours. And if Gygax Games have found that market then there's no telling how many of them have been exposed. Do you understand? Alright! Alright! Seriously, seriously, I can't honestly believe that there is anything going on there except the path of least resistance/maximum yield and it ain't hay. You know what I mean? I'd need a guarantee to believe that there is some noble venture planned and not some big "come on"/ "bait and switch"/"all roads lead to China"/"Kobayashi Maru" deal at this juncture.
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Post by Scott on Nov 4, 2008 11:13:25 GMT -5
I’ve already disparaged, and I’m not ready to take that back just yet. I’m just responding to what I’ve seen. It’s not only what’s been down, it’s how it was done. I’m playing wait and see because that’s all there is to do at this point.
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ghul
Enchanter
Posts: 272
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Post by ghul on Nov 4, 2008 11:22:25 GMT -5
Hello fellows,
I'd like to again thank you for your support and kind words regarding my small contributions to the CZ project. I'm afraid, however, that there is very little chance of me ever being involved with the folks at Gygax Games again, but I do sincerely appreciate the support! I'll never forget the pleasure, the honor, and (let's face it) the luck to have worked with Gary Gygax as I did. But that door was closed on me, and the new management has re-interpreted Gary's vision and his intentions with the product line. As Gene said, the reset button was punched. I wish them luck. For my own part, I've since moved on, and I'm working on a new RPG project with a very talented co-author. If Scott is amenable, I'd like to make Doomsday a place where I discuss that project as it grows closer to completion; for now, that is a bit premature. Again, thank you, and in closing I'd like to remind you all to drink beer. Every day.
Cheers, Jeff T.
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Post by Scott on Nov 4, 2008 11:25:36 GMT -5
Sure, Jeff. You've been nothing but positive. I'm happy to support in any way I can.
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