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Post by Scott on Sept 22, 2014 11:33:48 GMT -5
I always wanted to do something similar for Hommlet, maybe 5 years later. Update the village, and detail the surrounding area as a low level, campaign kick off sand box setting.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 22, 2014 11:37:58 GMT -5
I have a map of the GH area but its fucked because the old drawing program that I used codes it over as a mini-map (with the layers anyway.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 22, 2014 12:18:52 GMT -5
Can you make a hand drawn version and scan it?
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 22, 2014 15:21:23 GMT -5
Here is a redone version that I just did: Ooops sorry I uploaded the wrong version here is the one with the city highlighted
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Post by Scott on Sept 22, 2014 17:09:04 GMT -5
Nice!
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Post by Scott on Sept 22, 2014 19:06:05 GMT -5
Terick's stronghold was north of the city on the peninsula, and Bombabadil'a was somewhere close to Robilar's I think.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 23, 2014 8:07:37 GMT -5
I like the map. Just curious about the roads... Your own ideas or from EGG? It looks like there is a road going from Greyhawk City to where I would think Tenser's castle would be. Was there such a road? Do we know?
Also, what are your guys' thoughts on where Greyhawk Castle is in relation to the city? I was thinking: 2-3 miles northeast beyond some fens and near the Grey Run. To the east or west of it: I'm not sure. Using the City of Hawks map as the basis, what gate do adventurers leave from when going off to explore the ruins? Do they have to cross any rivers to get there?
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 23, 2014 11:52:36 GMT -5
I like the map. Just curious about the roads... Your own ideas or from EGG? It looks like there is a road going from Greyhawk City to where I would think Tenser's castle would be. Was there such a road? Do we know? Also, what are your guys' thoughts on where Greyhawk Castle is in relation to the city? I was thinking: 2-3 miles northeast beyond some fens and near the Grey Run. To the east or west of it: I'm not sure. Using the City of Hawks map as the basis, what gate do adventurers leave from when going off to explore the ruins? Do they have to cross any rivers to get there? These are highways from a conversation about it with Gary. I put it together then he corrected the original drawing. Each area with a mark ("baron", etc.) had an associated settlement none are towns as per Darlene's WORLD OF GREYHAWK map. That road is a highway East to the Great Kingdom and is where the shrine of Cuthbert and Tenser Castle are. Some of the roads and water are covering each other that they didn't before. It doesn't matter because its stylized anyway. According to Kuntz that is not where Robilar's castle is but I think that was/is irrelevant because this was an attempt at what should have been Greyhawk the published world and he was referring to the old wargame map. So keep that in mind. On this map its hard to make out where Castle Greyhawk is. The castle is where the swamp near Selintan over the city dimples South. Its pointing right at it. That was according to Gary's description then he told me to move it before putting the okay on it to put it on the webpage.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 23, 2014 14:40:56 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure Rob confirmed that Robilar's castle was about 90 miles SW of Greyhawk City, which would make your placement accurate. But like you say, Rob's reference may have been towards a previous campaign map geography different from the Darlene map. So I agree with you if the goal is to create a version of Greyhawk using the Darlene map yet that incorporates some detail from other incarnations, too -- and yes, that is my goal.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 23, 2014 21:09:14 GMT -5
Sorry this location is rob approved and gary disapproved. Oops.
Gary wrote it was west of the city originally in dragon magazine and then exploded and said the horned society attacked rob in a castle north and east.
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Post by Scott on Sept 23, 2014 21:29:14 GMT -5
Yeah, Rob agrees with the placement on the published map. Gary stated that both the Obsidian Citadel and Robilar's castle were in different places than the commonly accepted spots. I think Rob may have agreed to that location based on, 'it was 90 miles southwest of Greyhawk in Gary's campaign, so it's now 90 miles southwest of Greyhawk in the published campaign'. I think Gary didn't blur them like that. The published world was more distinct. It didn't matter to him where Robilar's castle was in the home campaign. He wanted the Robilar in the published world to have a castle to the east of the Horned Society, so that's where he was going to place it. Where did the notion that Mordenkainen's fortress was in the Yatils come from? In the same conversation where he gave me Robilar's location by the Horned Society he stated that the Citadel was in the hilly portion of the northwest Vesve.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 24, 2014 8:47:15 GMT -5
yeah, what a mess.
I can see from all the backs and forths that I was bugging out on Gary at that point. I think in retrospect that what I didn't know was that Gary was creatively castrated by all the legal maneuvers of the past.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 24, 2014 11:51:19 GMT -5
In some ways, locating Castle Robilar east of the Horned Society makes a lot more sense. A small, evil fiefdom so near the Domain of Greyhawk doesn't seem as... sustainable. Who would he go to war with? Greyhawk? Dyvers? The Druids of the Gnarley Forest? It seems like either he'd remain neutral towards them, or create enough trouble to get squashed -- which is what happened in EGG's home campaign when Robilar freed Zuggtmoy and the forces of the forest sacked his castle!
But in the Bandit Kingdoms, east of the Horned Society, it is a lot more wide open, with potential for war with other petty lords of N or E alignments. Also, a castle garrisoned with orcs just seems like a better fit there than in the eastern Gnarley Forest.
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Post by Scott on Sept 24, 2014 14:13:46 GMT -5
A few small points: Robilar was neutral when he built his castle. Greyhawk was noted as one of the places where an orc presence was 'normal'. Having orc mercenaries was almost de rigueur for petty lords. I don't think Robilar had any interest in going to war with his Greyhawk area neighbors, but Gary did say he would attack the Horned Society once the war that was being hinted at in Dragon, Isle of the Ape, etc. He also said Mordenkainen would attack Iuz.
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Post by Scott on Sept 24, 2014 14:21:36 GMT -5
Rob was stated that he envisioned Robilar coming back to the Flanaess and leading some Griffin riding bandits based somewhere on the eastern shore of the Wooley Bay. Another option would be that he secretly built a new stronghold in the Bandit Kingdom area.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 25, 2014 11:45:36 GMT -5
Yeah, you can easily come up with a story incorporating multiple locations for Robilar to have a castle. That might be the best approach. I think the story of Robilar's castle getting sacked by the forces of the forest is too good to not include in my Greyhawk. So for that reason, I have a hard time completely giving up the Gnarley location.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 25, 2014 11:53:28 GMT -5
CAIRN HILLS: How do you guys view the Cairn Hills? I think I've always viewed these hills as a sort of wilderness barrier between Greyhawk and the Urnst states, with little overland trade due to the dangerous terrain and the hills not being part of any "civilized" country. Things like haunted barrows, humanoids, and cave-men make it a dangerous area to travel through. And so civilized men haven't settled much of it, and don't often travel through it -- except as adventurers. The eastern hills are a bit better/more civilized, with halflings living to the north, gnomes in the center, and dwarves to the south and closer to the Abbor-Alz mountains.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 25, 2014 12:41:10 GMT -5
Cairn Hills? I think the name says THERE BE DUNGEONS HERE and that means anything goes.
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Post by Scott on Sept 25, 2014 13:07:37 GMT -5
My nephew and cousin used to love exploring the Cairn Hills. I DMed as a mix of mini dungeons I whipped up and a random wilderness crawl. One random treasure had a holy avenger and a sword of sharpness in it. The two most powerful swords ever found in my campaign, and nobody in the party could use either.
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Post by Scott on Sept 25, 2014 13:12:48 GMT -5
The cairns I can remember designing we're inhabited by mummies and wights.
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