GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Jun 18, 2008 9:27:10 GMT -5
How did this type of weapon get overlooked in 1E? Granted, it's more of a dueling weapon than a combat weapon, but what with all of the "Buccaneer and Musketeer"-style movies you'd think that it would have made it in by the Unearthed Arcana. Valerius (Erol Otus' character in the Rogues Gallery has a "sword of skewering" which is apparently some type of this weapon, but I find no stats for the generic sort of weapon. With an average overall length of around 42 inches, it doesn't fit into the Shortsword "piercing weapons of 15 to 24-inch" catch-all....
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Post by Scott on Jun 18, 2008 10:13:51 GMT -5
I think it was due to the time when the sword was developed. Past the tech era of when most campaigns would be set.
It would be pretty useless against most armor (if you use the adjustments).
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 18, 2008 11:15:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I'd say its part of "gun country". Whenever it came up it never said anything except use "short sword" damage which probably meant equivalent.
I just crosschecked several GIANTS IN THE EARTH references which featured a dueling sword as part of the fictional character's equipment. One of them said d8 under damage for "Tiana prefers to fight with a rapier, sometimes fighting with both rapier and dagger. " for the character "Andrew Offutt & Richard Lyon’s Tiana Highrider from DEMON IN THE MIRROR and THE EYES OF SARSIS" by Tom Moldvay DRAGON #48 APRIL 1981. However, it doesn't make much sense. Others just said use the short sword damage or nothing at all. Mouser in DEITIES AND DEMIGODS has no reference for his rapier damage except stating that is a rapier that he uses.
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Post by amalric on Jun 18, 2008 11:16:23 GMT -5
Even the "sword of skewering" didn't seem that brilliant a weapon ~ "negates the bonuses of magical armour"? Great, but how many 1-6D hits would you have to make for it to be effective? Even allowing for "bracers of the blinding strike"...
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 18, 2008 11:25:29 GMT -5
Simultaneous post! Its a post duel! Raise your E-epee! lol 4eva ROLMAO u c eh?Dammit! These work like garbled cell phone "txt"! Totally useless in the "forum genre"...  |
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Jun 18, 2008 12:11:46 GMT -5
Gray Mouser was one of the things that got me started thinking on this, as Gary and Fritz were great pals! It just seems to me that a "swashbuckling" character (think 'Dread Pirate Robert'...) could be fun, but there's no hard and fast rules for it... ^__^
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Post by Scott on Jun 18, 2008 12:30:49 GMT -5
You could extrapolate from the Mythus rules.
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 18, 2008 12:35:39 GMT -5
It was probably deliberate as to discourage "style breaking" of course we all know that didn't help much...
Seriously, anything can be brought in as a "rapier" including various bizarre monstrous attacks or weird weapons, etc.. The fact that these show up in various lit (Howard, Leiber, etc.) only harden the idea that sources are sources and games are games. The writer can control the usage but in a game it could be a gamebreaker. Of course, it doesn't help that "D&D" is so entwined in gamebreaking ephemera now like Forgotten Realms' ad hoc anti-Gygax schlock where the "rapier" is on every other street corner, etc., etc., etc.. This just puts the original justifications for elimination of the rapier from the weapon lists into yet another push and pull area with the HDL ("Horde D'Lorraine") and I'd rather just retain the original dismissal for common usage as a good intention for keeping it in "the zone".
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Post by amalric on Jun 18, 2008 14:08:10 GMT -5
Indeed. 'Tis but a small step from rapiers and main-gauche to separate Swashbuckler kits for fighters and thieves and then to gunpowder and steam engines... <Please excuse my 2E reference...  > |
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Jun 18, 2008 21:57:07 GMT -5
Bah! Paranoid prattle!!  And Scott is correct--it could be derived from the Mythus tables! |
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 19, 2008 8:44:21 GMT -5
If someone insisted upon having rapier for his character, I would just carefully note his name in my little book of names and write "watch that fucker!". Seriously, it just reminds me of a a more "florid" period so I disregard anything that evokes that theme anyway... PLAYER: I "smithed" together a transitional rapier in the last month at my castle.DM GENE: You mean you tried to "smith" together a transitional rapier in the last month at your castle. Instead you stumbled upon the rede of time, a quasi-real artifact, that exists in all eras. The rede determined that you would have to have "cannon" first so it subsequently filled your castle with all the ingredients for gunpowder....PLAYER: Cool! I take it all...wait, no...DM GENE: In the wake of the destruction and time warp activity, your character acquired 100 years worth of negative experience levels...PLAYER: My other character sifts through the ruins to look for the rapier...Just kidding! |
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Jun 19, 2008 9:07:15 GMT -5
Har!! At any rate, I don't quite equate "rapier" with "gunpowder" (which I would only allow to function in the hands of Murlynd or maybe in some odd circumstance within Greyhawk Castle upon Oerth... ^__^, just as I only allow tech to function in the immediate vicinity of the S3 space module or the FSS "City of the Gods" Beagle! When players ask for justification, I reply WILL OF THE GODS!!)
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 19, 2008 9:17:55 GMT -5
Rapiers only work in the dreaded "Chateau Dumas" located outside of Greyhawk on a heart-shaped peninsula made entirely of Neufchatel cheese.... |
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Jun 19, 2008 10:10:57 GMT -5
Heh!!  |
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Rhuvein
Magician
Beware . . Mjolnir
Posts: 228 
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Post by Rhuvein on Jul 15, 2008 12:39:18 GMT -5
Rapiers only work in the dreaded "Chateau Dumas" located outside of Greyhawk on a heart-shaped peninsula made entirely of Neufchatel cheese.... ;D LOL, touche!! |
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>
And Scott is correct--it could be derived from the Mythus tables!
