Dualclass Assassin

[mephisto]

Hallo everybody!

I have a few new questions.
(1.) What happens if a human character with two classes changes alignment to good,
and one of the classes is an assassin, for example Fi/Ass level 7/8.
I could imagine that the assassin-class will become a thief, but
(2.) does the thief has to use the assassin-xps-table for advancement?
(3.) If the assassin becomes a thief of the same level, will the thief abilities increase, or will the assassin become a thief of the same level with thief abilities of assassinlevel?

(4.)And (last question), what will be happen if the character changes alignment again to evil at some later point, for example at level
11/12 ?

[GRWelsh]

Why is it relevant if the character is dual-classed? If a fighter/assassin turns good, the consequences are no different than for an assassin turning good. You know a dual-class character can only advance in one class at a time, right?

I don't think assassins turning good are covered in the rules, so you're probably going to have to make up your own ruling. I would have the assassin essentially retain his class, but lose certain powers: no longer be able to use poison (if other good characters can't use poison either) and the assassination table -- and certainly not get improved thief skills as a result of the alignment change.

For general notes on alignment change, see p. 34 of the Player's Handbook. The impression I get is that it is very difficult for a character to willingly shift his alignment at all -- but all the more so when it is such a radical change as going from evil to good. And as far as going from good back to evil: "Changing back to a forsaken alignment is nearly impossible on a voluntary basis."

[Scott]

If you use the UA rules, then nothing happens. Assassins are allowed to change alignments after starting evil.
If you are not using UA, then there is no official word. I would handle it based on the circumstances.

[geneweigel]

There's no reason to have a good assassin in my campaign. The avenue for that logic just never existed except when attempts at "ramjetting" anachronistic and useless modern morals into my fictional D&D multiverse crop up from time to time.

I WON'T HAVE IT!



Seriously, ask the person if they want to take it seriously or not. if they just want to start off as a flakey assassin then forget it. Tell them to play a fighter instead if they don't want to make their own class. At the time of UA they were crying "James Bond!" "James Bond!" but thats way out of context for me. Assassins are no "James Bond"s. It doesn't sit right. Its like the opposite of saying "Cadfael" is "Holmes" in a way.

[Scott]

I agree. Assassins are evil in my campaign.

[mephisto]

Thank's for replies!
I was tired as I wrote the questions,
so grashyewl is right. It doesn't matter whether the assassin is dual class, and of course dual-class can only
advance in one class. Sorry, for the confusing questions.
neverthesless, your thoughts helped me, because I also won't have good assassins in my campaign.
The change wasn't willingly.

We restart a campaign whiche began 14 years past we stoped over 10 years back. The PC are about 12th Level, and some guy used an helmet of opposit alignment.
At this point we stopped.
And because we were years younger we played with many houserules, which we don't wont to play anymore. Althougt there were some funny ones... ;D
So I have to bring the characters into line, more btb.

[GT]

Uhhh... I'm with all of them! In actuality, I haven't had any PC assassins in my campaign since the very earliest "Try Everything" phase (1979?), but I do have an NPC assassin that eveybody in my campaign fears...

[Scott]

The situation is very rare, so their really isn't a need for a set rule. The few times a forced alignment change occurred in my campaign, the other players always managed to get the affected PCs alignment restored. If it happened in my campaign I would make a ruling based on what the player wanted.
If he wanted to continue on as a good assassin, I’d let him, but would probably have every other assassin around try to kill him.
I would throw something together to allow the character to continue advancing as a thief based on his current thief abilities, or let him dual class to a fighter without the standard ability score requirements. Any other dual class option would require the standard ability score needs to be met.

[Scott]

I've had a few assassins, as a player and as a DM, but they've all died early deaths.

[geneweigel]

Heres a tip from my experience, it sounds like you have what I call a "one hat" player. That is they get into their character and they never want to "start over from the beginning" with a different character. This happens all the time. Perhaps if the person has a pattern of sticking with one character of choice suggest that they not play an evil persona for their favorite. In my view, glib and superficial players who treasure a narrow scope of play (i.e. "their character is the world" ) and then play evil characters in that limited POV are a bad combo. The ideal player for an assassin is what I call a "master player" where they can easily switch roles with the referee without a bump. I might even go so far as saying "the thief" should be discouraged from that sort of play style and suggest they go with a fighter or magic-user.

[dcas]

I have a non-evil dual-class assassin in my Yggsburgh module. . . .

[geneweigel]

YOU'RE DEADMEAT, MAN!



Seriously, of course there can be exceptions to anything however I'm just throwing it out there.

It isn't a good assassin, is it?

[GT]

"good assassin"? How 'bout "plastic silverware" ^__^

[mephisto]

Thank you all for the ideas.

[geneweigel]

dcs said:

I have a non-evil dual-class assassin in my Yggsburgh module. . . .

When does that come out BTW?

[dcas]

geneweigel said:

It isn't a good assassin, is it?

He is neutral with good tendencies but in extreme situations he will fall back into his old habits. He's actually a friar!

I don't know when it's due to come out, the Trolls want to release one per month. I've actually just signed on to edit all of the MSS. for stats and prices, so I'll do my best to get them out in a hurry.