Demographics of the Flanaess

[GRWelsh]

Today I was thinking about the demographics of the Flanaess. I know it is not something that players usually give much thought to or are interested in, but EGG did include the population sizes and distributions. I suppose that means from a world building aspect he did consider this information to be useful and important. It can be helpful to the DM when developing what is plausible for various regions. Any thoughts on this?

[grodog]

Jay just had Richard DiIola on his show discussing demographics: youtu.be/2f44qE1MuZ8

Allan.

[GRWelsh]

Yep, I watched that and several other episodes of the Lord Gosumba video series. I heard him mention he has been running the longest running ongoing campaign set in Greyhawk (starting 1981) and he thought that Ed Greenwood probably has the longest running AD&D campaign since the Forgotten Realms games started in the 1970's. He also had Len Lakofka on several times before he passed, and I think I saw those episodes too. Pretty good stuff!

Some of my brief ideas on demographics... The high populations of the Great Kingdom in the eastern Flanaess could imply a more developed humanocentric civilization, perhaps making it hew more closely to medieval or Renaissance era Europe. The more lightly populated western Flanaess allows for more wide open spaces and development of demi-human realms, monster realms and original developments. The demihumans often being mixed in with the humans in many states implies close integration which is probably conducive to play with parties of various races. My guess is that was intentional by EGG to allow players to have ready made backgrounds and reasons to know each other and adventure together (Example: humans and dwarves serving in the army of Sterich together). I tend to prefer humans and demi-humans to remain mostly distinct and not be living among each other in most cases, and I think the vagueness often allows this as well (Example: dwarves could have their own region in Sterich such as a hall in the Crystalmist Mountains to the west but are strongly allied with the men in the lowlands and have an old tradition of coming to each other's aid... the dwarf lord owes a life debt to a heroic ancestor of the earl of Sterich, something like that).

[GRWelsh]

Something that does come up in my current campaign which I have to be prepared for are all of the player questions such as "Can I buy this here?" ranging from magic items, rare material components, and hiring wizards or high level clerics to do things like remove curse, dispel magic and raise dead. They also like to know what inns are available, costs for men-at-arms and hirelings, who the rulers are, and who they can go to for selling and dividing up loot -- such as jewelers and moneychangers. I deliberately set this campaign in the hinterlands of what I call the Westlands since from the point of view of Keoland and other civilized states of the Flanaess this is as far west as their civilization goes; it is their western frontier. I want the players to have to rely on their own abilities and cleverness so I haven't given them access to simply being able to buy everything they want. It's also part of the motivation to keep adventuring to find magical goodies, spells, and to go up in levels so they they can do these things for themselves. In a recent game, a character had a cursed magic item and Eric forgot his 5th level cleric had access to the remove curse spell. They were complaining and preparing to shell out the money to pay the local patriarch or wizard to do this... I took mercy on Eric and had him make a WIS check and he succeeded and remembered he could do it for free. So far I've kept NPC clerics of high enough level to raise dead out of this region because I don't like the flavor of it... "Are there any clerics around here that can raise dead?" they have asked. "No, that's YOU!" I told Eric. "Or it will be, if you get to be high enough level!"

To me it just feels very mundane if players can fork over money for magic. Getting a curse removed, an enchantment lifted, or a desired magic weapon... Those should all be the result of a quest, not a business transaction!

[geneweigel]

Everyone in the Flanaess is a bachelor/bachelorette. They procreate by spontaneous dice rolls...

[GRWelsh]

Nov 15, 2023 15:39:04 GMT -5 geneweigel said:

Everyone in the Flanaess is a bachelor/bachelorette. They procreate by spontaneous dice rolls...

That only applies to player characters since they rarely if ever get married and the DM isn’t going to role play “romance”!

[Scott]

One aspect of the game I did neglect for many years was how choosy temples would be with magic, and if the party had the gold I just hand waved it and played it like they could find a cleric to cast whatever. Lately I’ve changed that, clerics in general. The ‘representative’ of their god(s) is something I e been focusing on a lot more recently. The clerics now have to believe this is something that the god would want. Which means they have to know the party at least. It helps if there is a cleric in the party of the same faith, but no more strangers rolling into town with the gold for a raise dead, etc. the strangers could end up burning down the town or committing some atrocities, and it was the local temple that helped them out. Also, there is more quid pro quo. The Temple isn’t a Walgreens where the PCs can stop and shop for over the counter spells. If they are going to channel some of their god’s magic into helping the party, the party should be beholden in some way.

[geneweigel]

Gary's "LIVING FANTASY" (2003)talks about demographics related to magic indirectly talking about heroes and criminals percentages in the populace. I don't want to transcribe any of it here as the Gygax family is trying to raise funds republishing his Troll Lords material. Its on pages 30-31.

Gary on how to apply demographics in MASTER OF THE GAME (1989):

Even when you are not on "free time" there is much to be taken in which can and should be applied toward mastery. In school you are learning all manner of things which are applicable to games and game scenarios. Traveling to school or work and home again enables you to be observing others, see how they act, speak, walk, and so forth. Every game milieu has populations who will behave like the people in our real world - pay attention to them! The same thing applies to working situations. The actions and behavior of fellow workers, the operation of a business, group interaction, and the requirements of your particular occupation, all can be made to apply in some way or another to what goes into the RPG. After all, as Game Master you are the overseer of a whole world. There is also "free time" which is spent doing family-related activities, watching television, seeing films or plays, dining out, playing sports, traveling, and all the other things one does day-to-day, year-to-year. All you see, do, and experience has potential game application. A Master GM observes and utilizes his or her observations.

[geneweigel]

MASTER OF THE GAME quote is on page 25

[GRWelsh]

I like that EGG quote and it reminds me of the game related academic discussions fans often have once they are in college or graduate school. I frequently find inspiration for the game in the real world which can range from observing nature on my bike rides to travels to faraway places like Venice, Florence and Rome. It's one of the reasons I post my travel notes here. I can better envision a fantasy location when I've been to real world medieval or ancient locations. Siena and San Gimignano really stuck out to me as still having that medieval town feel.