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Post by GRWelsh on Oct 12, 2023 16:50:11 GMT -5
How many of you have witches as a separate class -- perhaps NPC only? I know there have been various witch NPC class descriptions published in THE DRAGON magazine over the years. I'm not opposed to the idea, but I always found classes like witches and death masters to be a bit too fiddly. In my campaign they tend to either be magic-users or clerics with special spells, abilities and/or magic items to give them the characteristics I want them to have.
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Witches
Oct 12, 2023 22:18:38 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Scott on Oct 12, 2023 22:18:38 GMT -5
I have toyed with the idea of incorporating some ideas from Mythus or even the 5E warlock, but I haven’t done anything yet.
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Witches
Oct 12, 2023 23:06:48 GMT -5
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Post by grodog on Oct 12, 2023 23:06:48 GMT -5
I allow these classes for NPCs and for the right PC concepts:
- alternate class options for bard (PHB, SR#6, Dragon 56, Trent’s version which a player is running now) - barbarians are based on Dragon 63 instead of UA (with additions from 65/69) - monk (Blackmoor, Dragon 53, OA) - new classes from Trent’s HL : mystic, mountebank, jester (also mixed with RJK’s and REM’s), savant (also currently in play at the table) - anti-paladin (and my paladins have sometimes been modified in general using a Holmes-based 5 paladins variant based on the "Plethora of Paladins" article from Dragon 106) - anti-ranger/hunter (from Dragon and NIPI newsletter, with some 3.x imports sometimes) - witch (based on Dragon 3/Dragon 41/Dragon 114/mine) - duellist (Dragon 73) - incantatrix (Dragon 90, with some Huso modifications - shadow master (mine) - bandit (Dragon 63) - Timelord (based on Lewis Pulsipher’s from Dragon 65 and expanded) - necromancer (based on Lakofka’s Death Master from Dragon 76 and significantly expanded with my own material, and more drawn from Lords of Darkness, Dominion and other spells from Jon Pickens’ Polyhedron articles)
Of the above, I’ve been able to playtest the bard, barbarian, monk, duellist, bandit, witch, shadow master, and timelord as PCs over the years.
I’ve used other NPC classes like Beastmaster, Dreamer, Archer, Scribe, Alchemist, Cloistered Cleric, Oracle, and others as needed/desired.
Allan.
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 13, 2023 6:42:48 GMT -5
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Witches
Oct 13, 2023 10:24:40 GMT -5
Post by GRWelsh on Oct 13, 2023 10:24:40 GMT -5
That other thread was more specific to lore about witches in the World of Greyhawk setting. This thread was more about game mechanics and getting input about how other DMs handle witches as PCs and NPCs, i.e. as separate classes or not. It was always notable to me that in OD&D and AD&D 1st edition the witch was one of the level titles for the magic-user. It was only later, in articles published in THE DRAGON magazine that the witch was written up as a subclass or separate class. I like the idea of NPC classes, but in practice I find them too detail-oriented. As an example, I don't need to keep track of every NPC's XP progression when most of the time they are "off stage." These days, I only want what I can use on short notice. So, I'm likely to just give an evil witch some special spells that came about through spell research and hence aren't known of to the players, and/or some magic items to make them more 'witchy' and challenging to the party.
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Witches
Oct 13, 2023 10:29:29 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Scott on Oct 13, 2023 10:29:29 GMT -5
When it comes up I generally make them M-Us with some special ability added granted by whatever being they made their pact with, like Erac’s Cousin’s imp.
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Post by GRWelsh on Oct 13, 2023 10:44:29 GMT -5
Yeah, that's along the lines of what I mean. One of the first DM's I ever played with was very creative and he used to write up and draw a lot of original demons and demon-like entities. He had sub-demons, demonlings and a satyr demonling as well as all sorts of demon lords. He was fascinated with the idea of those that had a pact with or served a demon lord. I should have asked him where he got the idea, as it ties in perfectly with witches or warlocks. He was Catholic* and his mother was an ex-nun, so there is that... A few years later, I read the Elric books and thought that was a good example from fiction of a character having a demon patron, as well as being a multi-class or dual-class fighter/magic-user.
*This wasn't meant as a knock against Catholics, just as an observation that Catholics seem to take the idea of demons and demonic possession more seriously than most Protestants, and so have more demonic lore from their religious tradition.
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Witches
Oct 13, 2023 11:25:15 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Oct 13, 2023 11:25:15 GMT -5
NPC awareness month... Do you know what your witch's experience points are? Seriously, its easier to just make witches a female magic-user with some extras (ala Lakofka) but Gary seemed to be interested in the witch being separate in DJ and LA.
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 13, 2023 12:11:19 GMT -5
The LEJENDARY ADVENTURES witch was in two parts by Gary in
Lejends Magazine #6 (OCT 2001) pages 10-19 "LOST LORE Witchery Ability By Gary Gygax"
Lejends Magazine #7 (NOV 2001) pages 26-28 "New Extraordinary Ability: Witchery By Gary Gygax"
"Spell List" (In LA terms its called "powers") from # 6
The "WITCHERY" ability is contrasted by the other "orders" in LA (classes in D&D) the default orders "demonurge" with the "sorcery" ability and "warlock" with the "necrourge" ability. In the text it assumed that "witchery" is an alternate ability for the "warlock" order. Also, those with the "witchery" ability are not really an order but are said to be an NACs (NPCs in D&D).
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Post by GRWelsh on Oct 13, 2023 12:50:59 GMT -5
Have any of you guys actually played Lejendary Adventures? If not, it does look there may be some good ideas to swipe for an AD&D campaign although with some customization needed.
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Post by Scott on Oct 13, 2023 13:25:46 GMT -5
Nope, but there are some good ideas in the same way Mythus has some inspirational content.
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 13, 2023 15:11:36 GMT -5
Despite its simplicity its definitely not the ready to go 1977 Basic set for sure. I had a hard time getting over the illustrations. The combat works but its not my style. We had a few dry runs for playability and while the style is simple it seems the playout of core combat play is more complicating. It was doable but I prefer good ol' D&D and it just seems like he was doing this as a placeholder with people pulling him one way or another.
I thought that Gary handing it over to the Troll Lords was going to deliver more brain-pleasing product but it is the same stuff with relatively better art that was non-illustrative.
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