Post by GRWelsh on Mar 18, 2023 12:51:07 GMT -5
I decided to start a new thread on the City of Brass as it relates to D&D/AD&D. In another thread, Gene asked about this and I found that Allan did make a comment about Rob's City of Brass on our forum some time ago, in the thread titled "Update on Rob K's works" -- he wrote:
So, it looks like it is possible to get yet another version of the City of Brass. I've often wondered if this is a project that originated out of "nostalgia for something that never existed." What I mean by that is that when I was a kid and first set my eyes on the DMG (1979) my curiosity was piqued by the colorful art by David C. Sutherland III depicting a party of adventurers fighting an efreeti on the front cover (I thought it was a devil at first, and often hid this book from my parents because I was afraid they'd get the wrong idea and it was the height of the Satanic Panic in the early 1980's! I'm sure others can relate... but that is going off on a tangent). More intriguing to me was the back cover with the evocative City of Brass floating over a sea of burning oil. That image really fired my imagination, as it was certainly a fantastic place of wonder and magic. At the time I assumed it was a location player characters could go to, perhaps once they had achieved higher levels -- which was correct (e. g. there are means within the rules to get to other planes including the Elemental Plane of Fire where the City of Brass is said to be located). I also assumed -- perhaps wrongly -- that its prominent depiction on the DMG cover meant that it was an important part of AD&D, perhaps linked to an upcoming product or module, and something that was quite detailed and emerged out of play in EGG's campaign or play-testing at TSR. I'm guessing a lot of others made the latter assumption as well. Fast forward thirty years and there was an exciting announcement that RJK and Necromancer were teaming up to bring this latter assumption to life. It was exciting for a lot of us old-timers because it was Rob -- the co-DM of the original Greyhawk Campaign -- working on a product that we had always imagined must have existed! It must have been heavily play-tested in the 1970's with original D&D, hence it being the subject matter of full color cover art for the most important of AD&D's rule books! Was I wrong?
I'm not sure if those questions were ever answered, but we did end up getting three versions of the City of Brass: one from TSR for the Al-Qadim setting, one by Necromancer, and one by Kenzer which was at least partially authored by Rob. I only own the Al-Qadim version, so I can't comment on the others. I've never ran an Arabian Nights style campaign or a Middle Eastern setting, so my interest is limited to how it may relate to the history of D&D, AD&D and the Greyhawk Campaign or other campaigns by some of the early designers at TSR. I know there were player characters early on who had Efreeti Bottles, and thus had powerful Efreeti servitors, and the City of Brass was referenced in the description of the artifact known as the Codex of Infinite Planes in the DMG, but other than that I'm not aware of any extensive development or play that went on in the City of Brass in actual D&D campaigns of the 1970's that may have had an important influence on the game. Is anyone aware of any?
2003 Sir Robilar's City of Brass (Kenzer's published version = 60% Jeff Knight with 40% RJK IIRC; this is not the same as the RJK unpublished 89K words manuscript, which Black Blade bought back from Kenzer (both Knight's work and RJK's work, so that we can peel Jeff out of it completely)
So, it looks like it is possible to get yet another version of the City of Brass. I've often wondered if this is a project that originated out of "nostalgia for something that never existed." What I mean by that is that when I was a kid and first set my eyes on the DMG (1979) my curiosity was piqued by the colorful art by David C. Sutherland III depicting a party of adventurers fighting an efreeti on the front cover (I thought it was a devil at first, and often hid this book from my parents because I was afraid they'd get the wrong idea and it was the height of the Satanic Panic in the early 1980's! I'm sure others can relate... but that is going off on a tangent). More intriguing to me was the back cover with the evocative City of Brass floating over a sea of burning oil. That image really fired my imagination, as it was certainly a fantastic place of wonder and magic. At the time I assumed it was a location player characters could go to, perhaps once they had achieved higher levels -- which was correct (e. g. there are means within the rules to get to other planes including the Elemental Plane of Fire where the City of Brass is said to be located). I also assumed -- perhaps wrongly -- that its prominent depiction on the DMG cover meant that it was an important part of AD&D, perhaps linked to an upcoming product or module, and something that was quite detailed and emerged out of play in EGG's campaign or play-testing at TSR. I'm guessing a lot of others made the latter assumption as well. Fast forward thirty years and there was an exciting announcement that RJK and Necromancer were teaming up to bring this latter assumption to life. It was exciting for a lot of us old-timers because it was Rob -- the co-DM of the original Greyhawk Campaign -- working on a product that we had always imagined must have existed! It must have been heavily play-tested in the 1970's with original D&D, hence it being the subject matter of full color cover art for the most important of AD&D's rule books! Was I wrong?
I'm not sure if those questions were ever answered, but we did end up getting three versions of the City of Brass: one from TSR for the Al-Qadim setting, one by Necromancer, and one by Kenzer which was at least partially authored by Rob. I only own the Al-Qadim version, so I can't comment on the others. I've never ran an Arabian Nights style campaign or a Middle Eastern setting, so my interest is limited to how it may relate to the history of D&D, AD&D and the Greyhawk Campaign or other campaigns by some of the early designers at TSR. I know there were player characters early on who had Efreeti Bottles, and thus had powerful Efreeti servitors, and the City of Brass was referenced in the description of the artifact known as the Codex of Infinite Planes in the DMG, but other than that I'm not aware of any extensive development or play that went on in the City of Brass in actual D&D campaigns of the 1970's that may have had an important influence on the game. Is anyone aware of any?
