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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 28, 2022 15:43:08 GMT -5
I'd say Venice deserves its own D&D incarnation, but I'm not sure where to put it on the World of Greyhawk. It would have to be island where 'civilized' people such as from a fallen or waning civilization (Romans) are trying to escape the ravages of 'barbarian' invaders (Goths), and at the early onset with a strong religious element (like stealing the bones of a saint to have claim to being an important holy city). I'm not sure it fits in the Flanaess. The early stages would be the religious, survivalist entity, but then rising to a mercantile power due to strong links to sea trade, then becoming a military power with a large navy, then becoming an artistic and cultural center, then moving into decline and decadence, and finally as a living museum before becoming submerged, at least partially, to simply become a ruin. That sums up about 1400 years of history. I suppose it depends on where your campaign is based, but the Sea Barons seem like they could be a likely candidate geographically. Maybe a place on the interior of the Azure Sea would work as well.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 28, 2022 18:31:03 GMT -5
Well Greyhawk has the canals and is the "Gem of the Flanaess" for trade. Next in line Monmurg in "Sea Princes" but as it seems more in the proximity of "Asia" it doesn't seem to have a silk road.
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Post by Scott on Sept 28, 2022 20:54:11 GMT -5
This is one of those times that I'm reminded that the Flamess is a lot further south than my mind tends to default to. Latitude wise, Venice would be north of Whyestill Lake, not that it would have to be the same, but as a starting point trying to find somewhere similar.
If you want the history to go back that ar it would be an ancient Flan city in origin. I'd say an ancient, forgotten Flann city state, and the current political states wouldn't be a consideration, and the barbarian invaders could be the Oeridian and/or Suel migrants.
Adding a new island is probably the best bet. I'd go with east of the Sea Princes or in the vicinity of the Lordship of the Isles/Spindrift Isles. Off the Coast of Ratik fits some of the ideas, but climate-wise it would be very different.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 29, 2022 2:58:19 GMT -5
Greyhawk City does have canals and the wealth and opulence. One could easily add in gondolas and/or a masked festival as an homage. I wish I could talk to EGG about this. He often seemed to lean into the Renaissance or later era, sans the gunpowder and cannons, so I think he may have liked the 1400-1700's flavor of Venice. Today I was thinking about the Battle of Lepanto in 1571 which was the last major naval conflict to be fought by rowed galleys which were descendents of the ancient triremes. That must have been something to see!
For reference, Venice is at 45 degrees latitude, Pittsburgh and NYC are at 40 degrees, and the City of Greyhawk is at 35 degrees. How close you are to the sea and wind direction has a lot to do with your climate as well. You can't really compare Venice to a place like Minneapolis which is also at 45 degrees but on the interior of the continent and gets brutal winters but Venice rarely gets snow accumulation and is just a lot milder due to being coastal.
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Post by maximus on Oct 1, 2022 17:40:25 GMT -5
What about Dyvers?
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 1, 2022 19:27:23 GMT -5
GH is ultimately Chicago (and NYC is Rauxes)
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Post by GRWelsh on Oct 3, 2022 7:50:00 GMT -5
GH is ultimately Chicago (and NYC is Rauxes) Just don't ask who has the better pizza or you'll have to hear raised voices for the next hour! Greyhawk "deep dish" versus Rauxes "hand tossed"! |
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Post by grodog on Oct 3, 2022 9:54:54 GMT -5
Rauxes and Dyvers were the other options that immediately came to mind, along with Rel Astra and Rel Mord. Perhaps Hardby, Gradsul, and/or Niole Dra also?
To get the maximum game benefit from the canals, it would be useful to have the Rhenne in the mix, so other cities along the two other lakes and their rivers could be options: Schwartzenbruin, Molag, Crockport, Chendle, Admundfort.
Allan.
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 3, 2022 11:56:00 GMT -5
GH is ultimately Chicago (and NYC is Rauxes) Just don't ask who has the better pizza or you'll have to hear raised voices for the next hour! Greyhawk "deep dish" versus Rauxes "hand tossed"! NY pizza is dead as far as I know. They swap out another ingredient every ten years. Its almost the canary in the coal mine for the times. My daughters always mock me with "Don't ask my dad about pizza..."  The round pie held out though the square NYC Sicilian died off in the 1980's when they forgot the pungent taste. |
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 476
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Post by foster1941 on Oct 31, 2022 22:26:02 GMT -5
In my version of Oerth Rel Astra is the Venice equivalent.
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