Thrommel missing for 6 years

[tzelios]

admin said:

I'm sure everybody's heard the version that places the blame for Thrommel's kidnapping on the Scarlet Brotherhood, working for Nyrond. Personally, I'm under the impression that this line of thinking springs from a misunderstanding of the Greyhawk timeline. I've always believed it was Iuz and the leaders of the Temple. Does anybody like the Scarlet Brotherhood/Nyrond idea?
Scott

This Brotherhood/Nyrond idea is an attempt of Gygax to explain the 573 CY entry of the Greyhawk timeline. It is in the OJ Gygax interview by Stormberg.

I elaborated on this path in
www.canonfire.com/htmlnew/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=281

If this seems reasonable to Gygax what may I say? In fact, I find this Gygax interpretation really ingenious. I will attempt to justify my above statement, but I am not sure I will succeed. If you have computer engineering backround you may know that when the processor seeks data in memory it first looks among the data that were recently used by the processor. This method applies in other situations as well, for instance investigation by the authorities. Often it is useful to examnine temporospatial locality. What I mean is that the temporal locality (it is more than that, it is temporal identity), i.e. the 573 CY, leads inevitably (in fact with a high probability, but for the purposes of our game it is satisfactory to say inevitably) to the connection of all 573 CY entries.

May be Gygax did not have what I wrote above in mind, and he just gave his testament on the issue. However, I believe he did have in mind something very similar to what I wrote above, since I have checked many times through private communications that he is outstandingly smart, a very analytical mind that is capable to think with abstraction. The issues I have presented to Gary are of really peculiar and abstract nature, and he really amazed me.

[tzelios]

grodog said:

FWIW, the version that I heard/read/whatever was that Mordy and the Circle of Eight kidnapped Thrommel, perhaps at the behest of the SB and/or Nyrond.

This idea was thrown by a canonfire! member whose name I cannot recall. It is not unlikely that the Circle of Eight was involved in some way. I think it is Kirt Wackford.

In <a href="http://www.canonfire.com/htmlnew/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=281">On Thrommel's Abduction </a>, working on the line of thought of the creator, I suggested that Nyrond's agent was Gellor, Gord's friend. The argument is that Gellor is sufficiently formidable plus has the appropriate skills (affiliated at that time with the thieves' guild in Stoink, has attended as Master of the guild as well, see Gord novels) to succeed in the abduction demanding mission. In addition, Gellor is a member of the Cabal of Balance, an organization encompassing the Circle of Eight and its predecessor Citadel of Eight.

[tzelios]

GT said:

Yeppers--and the fact that the sword was Lawful Good is a fact--straight from the Gary's mouth to my ear a few yards away. I can accept typos/mistakes... I just fix 'em in my campaign.

Please be aware of the following communication with Gygax:

"
From : Gary Gygax <[e-mail]>
Sent : Saturday, June 4, 2005 12:53 AM
To : "Stylianos Scarlatos" <[e-mail]>
Subject : Re: [off-list] A clarification on Thrommel's alignment

Greetings Amigo,

All's well and I am particularly busy--considering my reduced schedule of working time;)

The more interesting way of managing Fragerach is to empower the sword with the capacity of serving any good, Lawful, Neutral, or Chaoric, albeit it's spirit's alignment is singular...

Cheers,
Gary
"

The above is the most recent statement of Gygax on the issue. Notice that the statement is significantly different than his answer to Paul Stormberg in the OJ interview. Note also that the statement is better than correcting an editorial error of T1-4, since no correction is needed now.

Being the situation as it is, with the creator declaring different things on the same issue, it seems like we have two roots to follow.

One way is to consider valid the last statement, which is quite satisfactory, per the reasons presented above. Also, Fragarach is a weapon borrowed from Celtic mythology. If you seek Fragarach in Celtic mythology, soon you will understand that the sword can be no other than that of the Chaotic alignment. So far, the last Gygax statement on the issue is strengthened.

The other way is to investigate a new even better solution to manage the dichotomy. This new solution is to consider Paladin Thrommel as a fighter that had lost paladin status, albeit keeping the Paladin as no more than a title. This path offers a lot more interesting possibilities, since the weapon may be used as a plot (of the dark druids? it fits well, since the dark druids were affiliated with Celt fallen gods, see e.g. Dark Druids of RJ Kuntz, plus the auction notes of the RJ Kuntz auction of Dark Druids manuscripts) to corrupt the ranks of the warrior elite and thus plague evolved societies, like the ones of Furyondy and Veluna.

[GT]

The problem with all of this is: why go so elaborate? If the sword is LG, and one accepts the typo, you don't need any "excuses" for it. And if one is going to play the Castle Zagyg series, one had better be used to dealing with typos! Don't try to make them fit--just fix them. Also: Lugh, who brought Fragarach (the "Answerer"--not the "Instigator", or some other such name) from Tir-nam-mBo, was a god of the sun and craftsmanship--certainly "lawful" areas. And why did he bring forth the sword? To battle the fomorians--the celtic representations of chaos/disorder. Again: if one wishes to justify anything in their own campaign, more power to 'em. Gary just laughs at all of the controversy things like this can stir up... ^__^