Minimum Range for Missile Fire

[Scott]

In the UA Weapon Specialization section Point Blank range starts at 5'. Would you consider this minimum range for missile fire and anything closer is melee?

[foster1941]

I don't get normally get that granular with distances (5' vs 3' or whatever). My rule of thumb is that you can fire a missile at somebody within 10' of you (melee range per the DMG) but not if they're already engaged in melee with you. So you could move up to somebody and attack them in the same round, or attack somebody who's charging or closing against you, but once you've been engaged in melee you can't continue firing. Put another way, I usually allow one shot at 10' or less distance but only if the shooting character wins initiative.

[geneweigel]

In the original Point Blank spiel in the Archer class by Lakofka (DRAG #45 JAN 1981 also reprinted in BEST OF DRAGON VOL III JUL 1983) says:

However, his strength is taken into account at short and “point blank” ranges only (full at “point blank”, i.e. under 50 feet, and half rounded down at short range) and only then for trained Fighters with special bows (see hereafter for a full explanation).

A follow up by someone else ( Aiming for realism in archery: Longer ranges, truer targets by Robert Barrow DRAG#58 FEB 1982) said:

and point blank = up to 25 yards.

Then Gary chimed in a DRAG#66 OCT 1982 Sorcerer's Scroll:

Bows: Archers with composite, long, or short bows are entitled to a “point blank” range category. This range is from 6’ to 30’.

AND

All forms of crossbows have a “point blank” range of from 6’ to 60’.

of which both were echoed in UNEARTHED ARCANA (1985).


In a letter answered by Dragon editor Kim Mohan (hot of UA) in DRAG#105 JAN 1986:

A SPECIAL ARCHER?
Dear Dragon,
Should the archer NPC class (Best of DRAGON Vol. III) be allowed to have the ability of weapon specialization as described in Unearthed Arcana?
Adam Lidz, Bala Cynwyd, Pa.
If you're using the unofficial archer NPC designed by Len Lakofka, the original bonuses to hit and damage given in that article should be retained, not replaced by the combat bonuses given in Arcana for specialization with a bow. Those original bonuses are part of what makes an archer an archer; besides, from 4th level on, they’re better than the bonuses given to a bow specialist. On top of that, the archer gets an extra +1 when using any magical bow or arrow. If you find these advantages too powerful, you can treat the archer more like a regular bow specialist. But if these advantages haven't caused any game balance problems in your campaign, then there’s no reason to replace them with the lower bonuses. I can't think of a logical reason why archers should be denied the benefit of the other aspects of weapon specialization. If a bow specialist “who begins the round with arrow nocked, shaft drawn, and target in sight is entitled to loose that arrow prior to any initiative check,” then an archer should be able to do this, too. An archer should be able to do increased damage at point blank range just as a bow specialist can, but don’t add in the archer’s damage bonus before doubling the amount. Determine “raw double damage ” first; e.g., an arrow +1 does 2-7 points of damage, so “raw” double damage” would be 4-14 (2d6 + 2). A 14th-level archer also gets +7 on damage and an extra +1 for using a magic arrow, for a total of 12-22. That’s enough damage, isn’t it? I’d make the archer live with his generally lower number of attacks per round (he never gets better than 3/1), as some compensation for his greater ability to hit and damage. You'll need to solve other problems to make the two systems mesh smoothly; for instance, they differ in the definition of point-blank and short range. Maybe you’ll want to rule that an archer who benefits from some of the aspects of weapon specialization can never have proficiency with anything but a bow. You can use the two systems side-by-side, or you can mesh one into the other without making the archer too powerful. — KM

and in a post-corporate sabotage follow up, in a Sage Advice, Skip Williams tries to answer the nature of "point blank" but seems confused (DRAG#121 MAY 1987):

Does a crossbow specialist using a crossbow of distance or crossbow of accuracy get an extension of his point-blank range? Will an accuracy spell extend point-blank range? No, on all counts. The point-blank range category is a function of the specialist’s skill, not the missile nor the device that propels it. Each magical item or spell works normally in all other respects.

[Scott]

A bow specialist with a nocked arrow gets a shot off before initiative. The specialist's party is surprised. The monster is too far away to attack, but spends the surprise time closing on the specialist. The first round starts with the monster next to the specialist with the intention of attacking. Would the specialist get the arrow off?

[foster1941]

Apr 27, 2016 14:36:36 GMT -5 Scott said:

A bow specialist with a nocked arrow gets a shot off before initiative. The specialist's party is surprised. The monster is too far away to attack, but spends the surprise time closing on the specialist. The first round starts with the monster next to the specialist with the intention of attacking. Would the specialist get the arrow off?

I'd say yes.

[Scott]

Like yourself, I don't normally break distance down to this degree. Before bow specialization there was just the 'within 10' zone, but in this case, the 5' point blank rule got me thinking. The monster with surprise should be starting the round closer than 5'.

[geneweigel]

I would say someone with an arrow nocked and pulled to fly is still going to get clobbered by invisible opponents. It would be a negation of surprise if they were concentrating on the environs that I might give.

[foster1941]

I think the reference to 6' was an awkward/roundabout way of getting at the same thing we've been saying - technically within melee range (10') but not actually engaged in melee. Rather than get hung up on exact distances I rule it conceptually that if the opponent is too close to shoot with a missile then it's close enough to make a melee attack, and vice versa (if it's not close enough to get a melee attack then it's far enough to shoot with a missile).

So in your case of the monster that closed in a surprise segment, if it's decided it wasn't close enough to get an attack at the end of its move, then it's subject to a missile attack at the start of the next round (and, if necessary, it's arbitrarily declared that it must have ended the surprise segment at least 6' away) or, conversely, if it's declared that it ended the move within 6' and is too close to attack with a missile, then it should get an attack at the end of the move (there's precedent in the rules for a creature with surprise moving and attacking in a single segment).

[Scott]

This never happens in the game I DM, since the bow specialist is a ranger with an 18 dex. The attacker would need to surprise 5 in 6 to have a chance.

[geneweigel]

I think to resolve you have to have all the information which goes beyond just the rules. This is why I like to use miniatures and props for location shape and furnishings but other considerations are entire character sheets, time, rest, lighting, sounds, weapon types in use by all and, besides supernatural weirdness, the genotype of monsters (physical nature compared to animals or people).

[Scott]

Similar situation, a group of gnolls with bows surprises the party. They get their surprise rate of fire. One member in the party has a high dex that negates the surprise for him. How does that affect the rate of fire for the gnolls?

[foster1941]

I'm not sure. I'd make something up on the spot. Pretending I'm on the spot right now and being called on to make something up I'll go with this: gnolls get their surprise ROF but can't target attacks at the unsurprised character. Initiative is rolled to determine order of action between unsurprised character and gnolls - if the character wins he or she gets an action during the surprise segments - move, counter-attack, start a spell. I think that would probably play out okay.

[geneweigel]

Surprise is surprise so this under no condition? Just blam they came in while everyone was ready to move forward? Then yeah it could fly.