|
Post by geneweigel on Oct 25, 2012 12:55:12 GMT -5
I was thinking of doing non-profit fix to entirely update the world of GH to:
A: Put to sleep the unflavored notions
B: Make it more playable.
C: Answer all questions as cut and dry as possible.
So would I have to completely rewrite all the names and remap it?
Would i have to generic-ize every monster and spell?
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Oct 25, 2012 13:15:50 GMT -5
I think only if you plan to publish for profit.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Oct 25, 2012 15:17:03 GMT -5
So what would be the philosophy for a free version?
No copy paste (everything original), no similar formatting (abandon state entries), and different mapping (abandon hex system).
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Oct 25, 2012 23:07:13 GMT -5
I can't publish a new map?
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Dec 11, 2012 13:08:24 GMT -5
I kind of forgot about this, not really, just a little busy with crap lately so sticking to glibber rule related crap!
The other day I imagined Gary's character the "Archmage Weigel" (that he mentioned in the SLAYERS GUIDE TO THE UNDEAD) as a true contemporary of Zagyg left behind in the void of Tharizdun's destruction of the universe searching the negative energy of "gross Evil" for any signs of remnants of all the worlds of Oerth. And seeing that Gord had escaped to the world of Yarth. This world he shared with Sagard briefly but the clutches of the Evil caught up with Yarth and took Gord (and Sagard) with it. Of the other scaled down lesser magic worlds Uerth didn't but Aerth survived for a while at least. Learth was a new universe and where it fit on the "Earth-Oerth range":
EARTH: magic is virtually non-existent UERTH: dweomers are weak, chancy things YARTH: a sprinkling of things magical AERTH: highly magical OERTH: pure magic
is unknown but Oerth-like is assumed.
With the return of Gord to what seemed to be the updated "Tharth" (Tharizdun Oerth) it instead was an even more unrecognizable world where two combats happen at the same time (WOTC HASBRO game systems) we learned of yet another world "Monath". It was during this time that Tharthians were more aggressive than ever in maintaining that the sparse wastes of Tharth were included in Monath spelling the doom of that world as well. But the Tharthians also undid the final world resurrection spell of the Archmage cast with the Zagig's Codex of Confusing Messages and sent the Oerth careening into "Ozarkerde" where it melted into a cauldron of "Tharthery" so bizarre it became unrecognizable to all as "Eastmarth". As fast as Eastmarth was thrown to together it abruptly ended with the end of Zagig. Now all that remains is what could be the last vestige in the world of "Recuperth"...
The archmage adrift with his loose alliance of his contemporaries in the cosmic eddy as avenues of continuance are contemplated for exploration. An exploration that will avoid the pitfalls of yore...
Now in this context whats next?
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Dec 11, 2012 15:27:05 GMT -5
What that the verbal component of a Confusion spell?
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Dec 12, 2012 10:56:46 GMT -5
I was trying to imagine a field of reference for a start on a World of Greyhawk project at the same time looking at what Greyhawk is in the real world and what it is on the plane of imagination. This was as a fictional character without notation ( well not absolutely in one case) as if to look at all the changes: THARTH (Tharizdun Oerth) Lorraine Williams or Lorraine Williams' intentions as Tharizdun on Oerth matching her intentions with her malicious avatars (Ward, Breault, Cook, Sargent, Moore, etc.) on 1E/2E "CITY OF GREYHAWK/CASTLE GREYHAWK/GH ADVENTURES HARDCOVER/FROM THE ASHES/GREYHAWK WARS/ ADVENTURE BEGINS/ etc.ms) MONATH: the failed Gygax deal version of Greyhawk by WOTC that put people who never even read any Greyhawk material except the last 2E material (Mona, Reynolds, Cook, etc) OZARKERDE: Troll Lord s productions from Arkansas (c.v. Ozarks & World of Erde) THARTHERY: A play on "sorcery" and "Tharth" (see above "Tharth") All the 2E type contributors to CASTLE ZAGYG and CASTLE & CRUSADES EASTMARTH: A play on East Mark and Oerth representing the production of a setting for Castle Zagyg. RECUPERTH: The attempt of the immediate family heirs of CASTLE ZAGYG to resell it to recoup the lost profits for more on the initial product introduction of a restart. NOTE: I actually didn't include the popular Kuntz takes because well... he'd probably show up and remind me that the thing that I enjoy as Greyhawk doesn't really exist.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Dec 12, 2012 12:50:17 GMT -5
How about using the 1983 box set, 1st edition AD&D core books, and Gord novels as your jumping off point, and then using your notes and conversations with EGG, as well as your own ideas about what to improve? And not waste time with renaming/remapping/genericizing.
AKA "This is a sequel to Gygax Greyhawk and nothing else."
As an example, you could start with the "real" City of Greyhawk. A nice blown up poster map based on the one in the City of Hawks book, perhaps similar in style to Lankhmar, and done up with your own key in the form of City Geomorphs, and with details and flavor taken from the Gord books. That would be your opening salvo and clear indicator that it is a project that doesn't in the least attempt to reconcile with anything post-1985...
Straight up 1st edition AD&D, no clones.
I'll bet there would be a lot of interest in that... more than you might expect.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Dec 12, 2012 13:32:03 GMT -5
That pretty much sums up what I was doing with Gary with City of Greyhawk except he also filled in the gaps. The objection was huge with all kinds of people suggesting it was illegal. At that point, I was looking for an alternative to WOG to continue the city in LEGENDARY ADVENTURE. He said that Europe was off limits because it wasn't "his world". So I had to work with "Legendary Hawaii" which he suggested would be a challenge but doable as long as we worked together. He sent me some kind of DEITIES & DEMIGODS for LEGENDARY ADVENTURES for a starting point to refer to Pacific deities. I kept thinking of Jack Lord and at that point I wanted to shoot myself! The major issue of the objectors was that the free website had content that was giving away game property. Now post-Gary his estate technically owns all the "true City of Greyhawk" material and it cant be used at all now. So I have two major factors to consider. The owners of "GREYHAWK" and "GORD THE ROGUE". COnsidering both that is not something that I want to mess with. I'd rather use my knowledge to consider alternate plane type option of a co-world to have unlimited depth but at the same time be grounded by a complimentary code that does not replicate.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Dec 12, 2012 13:44:18 GMT -5
A world that is "old school" only in that it:
A) compliments AD&D B) is bound to WoG C) it's not confused as something it isn't and it can be 1982 in scope for all eternity D) it will challenge the industry to wake up as to what they are doing wrong E) it's free
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Dec 12, 2012 13:52:10 GMT -5
Hmmm... being illegal only makes it more appealing!
What about pitching this idea to the owners of EGG's estate? They aren't currently doing anything with it. A free, online "City of Hawks" might be just the perfect springboard for releasing further product down the line.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Dec 12, 2012 14:18:27 GMT -5
I'm sure if Gary thought it was no longer prudent I'm sure they'd be even more unsure! I never met Mrs Gygax, my cousin Bill met her at a wedding by random chance and he's about as good a judge of character as a sensory-inhibited umpleby, so I have a reluctance to get involved with another rpg person surrounded by rumor!
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Dec 12, 2012 14:48:23 GMT -5
Give her a call and introduce yourself! Maybe that sounds crazy, but really I don't think it is. You had a relationship with EGG, and corresponded with him on projects and gaming material.
In any case...
I don't see how fan-produced free material on the internet is a serious legal issue. If you were selling it, or using it as a means to make money somehow, then yes. But who cares if a fan posts his own home-brewed version of a Greyhawk Guide and City of Greyhawk? Or 1e adventures set in Greyhawk's world... an edition that WotC... er, Hasbro... doesn't even support anymore!
It would mostly be of interest to old time gamers, the dwindling, graying AD&D crowd.
I think it would be hilarious if it really took off.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Dec 13, 2012 9:33:24 GMT -5
Give her a call and introduce yourself! Maybe that sounds crazy, but really I don't think it is. You had a relationship with EGG, and corresponded with him on projects and gaming material.
In any case... Heh, now that seems too far to go and bordering on the fantastic. Even in an ideal situation the City of Greyhawk cuts too close to whatever reboot is going to come out of that Zagyg redo. In layman's "market world" view that means crushing their flagship's selling points with conflicting views even if it is "free". I'd probably get permission for "Garyhawk Indochina"...
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Dec 13, 2012 10:40:34 GMT -5
Besides a safe alternate world has more freedom and can be free of the fetters of the people that hover around things called D&D with this feeling that they need to preserve the warped and shitty burnt forms of the game with endless attitude.
A complimentary world not unlike Phaeree to Aerth but in the sense its a "normal magical" world.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Dec 13, 2012 10:56:45 GMT -5
So I had to work with "Legendary Hawaii" which he suggested would be a challenge but doable as long as we worked together. He sent me some kind of DEITIES & DEMIGODS for LEGENDARY ADVENTURES for a starting point to refer to Pacific deities. I kept thinking of Jack Lord and at that point I wanted to shoot myself! Just think, you could introduce this to the world with a karaoke video cover of "Mele Kalikimaka": www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEvGKUXW0iI
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Dec 13, 2012 12:12:45 GMT -5
Besides a safe alternate world has more freedom and can be free of the fetters of the people that hover around things called D&D with this feeling that they need to preserve the warped and shitty burnt forms of the game with endless attitude. A complimentary world not unlike Phaeree to Aerth but in the sense its a "normal magical" world. Then it looks like you have nothing to worry about and you can proceed with the development of 'Weigeurth' or 'Genearth' or 'Brooklyrth' or whatever you want to call it.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Dec 13, 2012 12:13:19 GMT -5
So I had to work with "Legendary Hawaii" which he suggested would be a challenge but doable as long as we worked together. He sent me some kind of DEITIES & DEMIGODS for LEGENDARY ADVENTURES for a starting point to refer to Pacific deities. I kept thinking of Jack Lord and at that point I wanted to shoot myself! Just think, you could introduce this to the world with a karaoke video cover of "Mele Kalikimaka": www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEvGKUXW0iII swear to god everytime that I went over the approach thats what I couldn't get out of my head! Believe it or not in regards to the shit I was saying regarding the redo CoG website for LA as a locale like a fort or town being pushed into the Pacific by the powers that be of that brand. THE HERMIT locale was supposedly nearby in a sort of Legendary Hawaii so it wasn't just me who was getting pushed out of Learth it was Gary's problem prior to me getting involved in any way whatsoever. I never met them (the LA people) but I seen one of the design people behind it named Chris Clark once at LGGC in 2007. Can't say anything good or bad about him but something not being said was going on there. The only thing was that he constantly mentioned was that they paid what WOTC wouldn't for his involvement. I have no clue what that meant but I know that Gary didn't seem to have trouble until this particular instance. Heh, I just dug up the original e-mail where Gary said the location we were planning was called the "Centranean Sea" which he said was like the Mediterranean. I think that I may have deleted the "doomed relocation to the version of the Pacific Ocean" e-mails because they had large file attachments with maps of Learth and their version of Deities & Demigods and I didn't want to keep them and be obligated in anyway as this was a sore subject for somebody. Heh, when looking for the "Legendary Hawaii" e-mails I found an awesome Gary quote directly to me: I quit paying attention to the WoG when T$R started fucking around with it. Maybe some of these blinded "Greyhawk fan" folks can have that as a forum signature!
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Dec 13, 2012 12:23:16 GMT -5
Besides a safe alternate world has more freedom and can be free of the fetters of the people that hover around things called D&D with this feeling that they need to preserve the warped and shitty burnt forms of the game with endless attitude. A complimentary world not unlike Phaeree to Aerth but in the sense its a "normal magical" world. Then it looks like you have nothing to worry about and you can proceed with the development of 'Weigeurth' or 'Genearth' or 'Brooklyrth' or whatever you want to call it. I don't want my campaign to rub off on it. I think that it must: A) be a tribute to Gary B) be American first, dark ages European second, and with a centralized " Great Lake" with a American Western sensibiltiy third. C) the next world over from Oerth D) in no relation to my campaigns of variant Greyhawks, or the old City campaign that was renewed, or the tangential village of Grogham public campaign. But a fresh start with Greyhawk parallel first. E) GH tributes retributed in completely different ways.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Dec 13, 2012 12:47:41 GMT -5
I still need to hammer out a few principles of the philosophy and rule basis.
|
|