GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Aug 3, 2012 8:23:28 GMT -5
Howdy Scott and all! So Gary put Iggwilv as about a 30th level M-U, but as her Demonimocon also contained clerical spells, she would seem to be at least 16th level there as well... any comments? ^__^
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Post by Scott on Aug 3, 2012 9:44:45 GMT -5
I'd give her 20th level cleric abilities.
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Aug 3, 2012 9:53:35 GMT -5
Would you say that Iggwilv somehow advanced as a multi-class character (despite being human), or first as one class, then as the other? Or maybe she was a mage who through the demons that she worshipped was then able to advance as cleric while continuing to advance as a M-U?
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Iggwilv
Aug 3, 2012 10:08:42 GMT -5
Post by Scott on Aug 3, 2012 10:08:42 GMT -5
I'd use the dual classing route if I wanted to stay within the AD&D rules for PCs. Actually, I wrote some of the Mythus rules related to pacts and covens into her background.
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Iggwilv
Aug 6, 2012 22:20:02 GMT -5
Post by grodog on Aug 6, 2012 22:20:02 GMT -5
Actually, I wrote some of the Mythus rules related to pacts and covens into her background. Can you please give a quick summary, Scott? I've still not read Mythus....
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Iggwilv
Sept 27, 2012 22:18:52 GMT -5
Post by Scott on Sept 27, 2012 22:18:52 GMT -5
Allan, I meant to answer this a while ago, and just forgot. The coven stuff is so far back in Iggwilv’s history that it really doesn't affect her current stats. If Iuz is the Old, then obviously his mother must be older. I have Iggwilv being born pre-migration in northeast Baklunish lands, with some Oeridian blood too. Fleeing into the eastern Flan wilderness at a young age and hooking up with a coven of Flan witches that served Graz’zt. She quickly became leader of the coven and Graz’zt’s consort. Shortly after that Iuz came along. Iggwilv disappeared for a long time after this. Maybe playing a background role in the rise of Iuz, or maybe off adventuring through the multi-verse, imprisoned somewhere in a timeless prison, etc. A little over a hundred years ago, she shows up again, and with her help Iuz’s realm really takes off. She then moves west a bit to start her own kingdom. The rest, as they say, is history.
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Iggwilv
Sept 28, 2012 10:59:30 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Sept 28, 2012 10:59:30 GMT -5
Gary had this problem with forgetting that he asked me to do things and not the other way around. Flat out he told me "Gene, I want you to write the sidebars for this graphic novel about Gord the Rogue and I will pay you." So I asked about what and he specifically said Iuz and Iggwilv to make the story more interesting. He was going through some tough times apparently because every time I brought up Iggwilv and Iuz it was maddening. Anyway, we're left with nothing however he did respond to all of these questions by saying You are kidding me with that liost of questions that need essay-length answers, right? I'm way behind in writing, but I'll save the missive and see about answering them as I have some spare time now and again.
So lets assume that every answer needed a really complicated and non-easy answer: 1) Iggwilv (who you said is basically Louhi of the Kalevala) does she any odd special powers and abilities like Iuz? YES.2) Her daughter Drelnza the vampire from Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth. Any associations with Iuz? Is she his only sibling? Is she Graz'zt's child as well? YES. NO. NO. 3) Iuz and his two forms old man (aging spittle) and big red demon (grappling). What's this about? That is, why the two forms? Is it "naturally" a shapechanging ability or is it some kind of applied magic? LATTER.4) Were the Circles of Iuz created to emulate the other secret organizations of the Flanaess? For example the Cabal, The Circle of Eight, the Horned Society and the Scarlet Brotherhood all seem to suggest either the number three is important and/or that they are multi-tiered in structure. YES.5) I've always assumed that Iuz's first appearance in the original Greyhawk campaign was when he was released by Robilar beneath Castle Greyhawk. Is this right? NO.6) St Cuthbert and Iuz. How long has the enmity been going on between these two? Was Cuthbert mortal when it started? LONG TIME AND YES.7) Life in the land of Iuz. What's society like at a glance? COMPLICATED.
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Iggwilv
Sept 29, 2012 11:05:06 GMT -5
Post by grodog on Sept 29, 2012 11:05:06 GMT -5
Nice digging, Gene. Do you have any more context about the graphic novel that would help with inferring some of the essay length details?
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Iggwilv
Sept 29, 2012 12:39:51 GMT -5
Post by geneweigel on Sept 29, 2012 12:39:51 GMT -5
It was just adaptations of the GORD THE ROGUE series and nothing new. The new parts were going to be these sidebars that tied it all together and initially there was this "number zero" which had the just prior to the events in GORD THE ROGUE: CITY OF HAWKS. That had a lot of input on my part. I talked about historical eye candy a lot which eventually was shot down and there was decision to forget all the number zero issue and reduce it to one panel. Then it was silence then he said it fell through with no details. I guess the artist Daniel Horne who did the cover of THE HERMIT around that time had something to do with the cancellation but I'm not sure. All I know was I forced into this. Who can say no to this: "Seeing as how you are likely the most dedicated of all original Greyhawk fans." by Gary Gygax himself? I bounced ideas back and forth and the only yield was this notion of working that I've never had for the game. There was a general discussion of Greyhawk but most of that ultimately collapsed into the mentality of the "OSR" or rather "IFW days" like that book that just came out. I got more half-ideas from Gary for the Greyhawk city website including stuff that he wanted me to finish and have him approve. So thats why I dont ever want to mention any of that material. Its not final.
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Iggwilv
Feb 4, 2016 21:14:18 GMT -5
Post by foster1941 on Feb 4, 2016 21:14:18 GMT -5
Although Iggwilv is supposed to be the same person as Louhi of Finnish mythology, presumably we shouldn't just use the stats for Louhi from D&Dg for her since they seem way too low-powered (C10/D10/M15/I10; 15% magic resistance, AC 8, 110hp; only special ability is summoning 4 invisible 6th level fighters w/ AC 3 & 27 hp each). Which I suppose makes that, like, strike #500 against Jim Ward's magnum opus...
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Iggwilv
Feb 4, 2016 21:17:26 GMT -5
Post by foster1941 on Feb 4, 2016 21:17:26 GMT -5
P.S. Just made the mistake of Googling Iggwilv and came across a Wikipedia page with a super-detailed, ultra-cheesy post-Gygax backstory that made my brain bleed.
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Iggwilv
Feb 4, 2016 21:19:32 GMT -5
Post by Scott on Feb 4, 2016 21:19:32 GMT -5
Oh yeah, she's a favorite target of the post-Gygax crowd.
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Post by Merkholz on Feb 5, 2016 7:54:49 GMT -5
If you're channeling Louhi I Think C20/M15/I10 would make more sense. My own opinion is something like C20/M22.
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Iggwilv
Feb 5, 2016 13:44:07 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Scott on Feb 5, 2016 13:44:07 GMT -5
EGG stated she was close to a 30th level spell caster, but he didn't specify MU or cleric. I'd go with Cl: 21, MU 28.
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Iggwilv
Feb 6, 2016 12:33:46 GMT -5
Post by Scott on Feb 6, 2016 12:33:46 GMT -5
If I get the campaign running, after the war alluded to in Isle of the Ape, I think the PCs may be sent to face Iggwilv directly as the climax of that arc. But that is far in the future.
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Iggwilv
Feb 6, 2016 19:38:30 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by geneweigel on Feb 6, 2016 19:38:30 GMT -5
In regards to "Louhi", the inconsistencies in DEITIES AND DEMIGODS (1980) and GODS, DEMIGODS AND HEROES (1976) were enough in general to make addressing deities a priority for Gygax in their wake in various DRAGON MAGAZINE articles. Louhi and the ""Crone of Pohjola" are separately a fighter and magic-user in that order in GD&H and edited into one in DEI&DEM. Various other "Finns" are beefed up to make the AD&D cut but the new "Louhi" is just cut and paste power-wise from the crone and rounded out.
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Iggwilv
Feb 7, 2016 10:27:39 GMT -5
Post by Scott on Feb 7, 2016 10:27:39 GMT -5
I never liked the attempt to tie Iggwilv to Louhi or Baba Yaga. She's just Iggwilv to me. GODS, DEMIGODS AND HEROES and DEITIES AND DEMIGODS are so far removed from my idea of D&D cosmology and divinity that they're just about useless as game reference books.
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Iggwilv
Feb 7, 2016 12:43:07 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by geneweigel on Feb 7, 2016 12:43:07 GMT -5
I treated them as if they were unfinished from just playing with them and finding them not as good as Gygax's god related DRAGON MAGAZINE (and BEST OF) articles (wog and in general with wog as an example).
I think my friend Taylor who was perhaps a chief player and DM back in the 80s was the reason behind my god obsession. He is/was very argumentative about D&D although not during games. So my god play had to be inpeccably seamless.
In regards to Gygax's philosophy on gods one of the examples he gave on my follow up on the phone call specifically about Iuz was Iggwilv was in the same boat as different entities per world.
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