D4 The Really Really Forgotten Temple of the EEG

[geneweigel]

snip

[GT]

Your surmises on the Illithids' location seem correct to me, Gene. Beholders would seem to fall into that same category then, as both races disappear from the encounter tables after D1. It would seem that the increasing presence of Chaotic Evil beings is an aversion for them!

[GT]

OK, here's the upgraded version of the EEG's...
ELDER ELEMENTAL GOD (Greater Deity)

FREQUENCY: Very rare
NO. APPEARING: 1 – 3
ARMOR CLASS: -3
MOVE: 12"
HIT DICE: 300 hp
% IN LAIR: 85%
TREASURE TYPE: P (x2), R (x2)
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 - 6
DAMAGE/ATTACK: See below
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 55%
INTELLIGENCE: Godlike
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil
SIZE: L (30' tall)
PSIONIC ABILITY: 222
LEVEL/X.P. VALUE: X/ 129,300*

There are actually three of these beings known to exist, and it is believed that they originated in an alternate universe. They are probably of Greater Deity status, but their nature makes this unclear. At one time these creatures had a fairly broad power base on Oerth, being served by evil men, drow, humanoids, and even giants. But when much evil was driven into hidden places in archaic ages, they were all but forgotten. In more recent times, a dissident group of drow (the Eilservs) has reinstated the worship of at least one of these creatures. Their common designations are Qhalk'ru, Xotl'ru and Kthu'ru. If successfully summoned and they deem it in their interest, they will bestow a strange altar made of a rusty, black mineral of an alien nature. This altar enables them to manifest more easily in the Prime Material Plane, serving as the other end of an inter-planar conduit. Their current resident plane is unknown, but at least one is believed to have been banished to Tarterus.
These creatures generally attack with up to six of their tentacles, constricting with one for 3 – 18 points of damage or grasping with two and twisting with a strength of 24 for 5 – 30 points. Their beak inflicts 5 – 20 points of damage. But the most feared attacks are the powers of their eyes! The Elder Elemental Gods may use each of the following powers once per day, one per melee round: Age (1 – 20 years), Death (save against or die instantly), Fear & Weakness, Insanity, and Rage (save vs. Spell or attack comrades with lethal force for 1 turn). Each of these powers will affect all creatures of non-deitific status that view the eye! Any creature devoured by one of these monsters is utterly destroyed, body and soul, by the powerful negative energy of their being. In addition to their attacks, these creatures may use the following spell-like abilities at will, once per melee round: cause fear (as a wand), charm person, charm monster, continual darkness, detect invisible, detect magic, dispel magic, ESP, and teleport (no error). Once per day they may summon 2d6 quasi-elementals of the Ash, Dust, Salt, or Vacuum type (25% chance for each). In addition, the Elder Elemental Gods may grant another’s wish (1/day), and at their option raise an ability score for a character (once only for any category per character, 12/week). They have the spell-casting ability of 16th level clerics, and are able to grant up to at least 5th level spells to their clerics. Also, these beings possess great creative force, but their chaotic and dark natures make the exact direction of this power unknown. A +3 or better weapon is required to hit these creatures, and they are immune to the effects of vacuum, cold and poison, and take half damage from acid, alkaline and lightning attacks. Magical fire inflicts full damage on these creatures, and positive energy inflicts double damage.
The Elder Elemental Gods appear as giant, vaguely squid-shaped creatures with ten tentacles that are covered by cilia-like growths. Four of the tentacles are somewhat thicker and broader, and these are used for mobility. They are mottled in disgusting hues of violet and mauve, and have a single huge amber eye, which glows red-orange when the creature is angry. A vicious black beak is located beneath the tentacles. These beings are extremely intelligent, but have alien thought processes. As these creatures are in contention with the demoness Lolth, she bears a great enmity toward them! It is certain that they also bear ill intentions toward Zuggtmoy and Iuz who had a temple constructed over one of their sites of power for their own fell plans! Rumors have linked these creatures with Tharizdun and the Elemental Princes of Evil, but the former is false and the veracity of the second is dubious.

I upgraded their power a bit, but I think there must be at least a chance for characters to be able to banish one of their Oerthly manifestations as it was apparently done once before, without leaving an "epic legend" behind as the binding of Tharizdun did. Of course, the EEG's banishment happened long before the Tsojcanth and company versus Tharizdun manifestation, so the tale might simply be forgotten. Perhaps a special relic was used...?

[geneweigel]

snip

[GT]

Well, we can always make the "private" Oligarch-version that pulls no punches; and then retro-grade it into a "generic" format. BTW, I originally had the EEGs at 200 hp in keeping with Gary's typical 1977-1979 "high-level critter" limits, but then he went and said that they had "creative abilities" which in Mythus-speak meant that they were a bit more powerful than I had imagined. Perhaps they were stripped of some of their power when accessing the Oerth universe...,?

[GT]

We can always finish the module , then send Gary a version while letting him know it's "private stock" and then listen to his commentary on it. The Dragonsfoot board does free PDF 1E modules like that fairly often (including one for Lolth...)

[GT]

I think that our assessment of the EEGs is the easy part here; the hard part is sorting and assembling the various other pieces; to wit:

1) Either Lolth was trying to use the EEG, or the EEG was trying to use Lolth, or both-- I've never really been clear on that...
2) Gary has decried most of Q1 and stated that although a maze-like structure was to be involved, he had never approved the published version of Q1 [especially disliking the mecha-spider]--it was Brian and Kevin Blume who rushed it into print. Nonetheless, Gar-Bear must've liked at least some of the module as per the praise on page 2 in the preface of Q1. It being an official module, co-credited to Gary and Dave Sutherland, we must find some grounds for reconciliation and tie-in with our D4 for it to truly fly...
3) Gary has stated that the object of D4 would have been for the players to either loose the EEG to greater freedom, or chain it even more deeply (apparently with some sort of interference from Lolth). The fane of D4 must therefore be of somewhat greater potency than the shrines to the EEG in G3 and D3 to allow this sort of latitude.
4) The four objects found in D3, as I believe Gene mentioned, were originally intended to represent the four elements in regards to the EEGs creative abilities-- In what capacity do we work that into the module?

Others have apparently attempted "an alternate ending" to the G-D series, with limited success. Therefore, we have to try to cover all of the bases. As an aside, I really had no problems with Q1, such as it is, as I informed the players they had checked the EEG by besting the Giants and causing havoc in Erelhei-Cinhlu--Lolth was merely an unforseen new foe who would also be best dealt with. Finally, and this has no direct bearing, I see reputable sources claiming that the Demon Web was based upon a pattern on a napkin or a placemat. Neither is true; both Dave and Gary have stated that it came from a towel, so that's the final answer! ^__^

[GRWelsh]

I think we ought to go with GT's suggestion of doing a "private" Oligarchs-version that pulls no punches as the way to go for the first draft: a 1st edition module, set in the World of Greyhawk, that is a direct sequel to the G-D series. We can always decide what to do with that material, afterwards. And I think Gene's idea of us each "going it alone" to come up with our own backgrounds, first drafts, an outline for the adventure and crunchy bits such as as encounters, new monsters, new magic items, etc. to allow our individual creativity to fly (with the agreement of not being "married" to any single idea, when we try to hash out of "best of" later) is a good starting point.

I've already started writing my "For the DM's Eyes Only" section, which alludes to how the adventure begins, and ties into the previous modules -- but to address some of GT's questions above, and other of Gene's suggestions, it's probably best to write D4 without too much retro-fitting or trying to invalidate Q1. D4 is a module for the party that wants to follow the original plot of bringing retribution to the force behind the giant conspiracy that began way back in G1. It really is that simple. Eclavdra was behind the giant conspiracy, and she was a priestess of the Elder Elemental God. Whether or not she survives G3, the party may learn that her priesthood and noble house is the one trying to establish a power base on the surface world -- and if they are not dealt a sharp check, it leaves it open to happen again.

I think, even in EGG's writing, there is a general shift in the D series from Eclavdra's faction being the malefactors behind the giant conspiracy, to the perceived foes being the Drow in general. And that assumption would seem to bear out with the fact that D3 ends at, and therefore the final battle being assumed to be at, the spiritual/political center of the Dark Elves which is the Fane of Lolth.

But I'm going to assume (at least in the draft-background I'm submitting) that players will retain the original goal of punishing the secret masters behind the giant conspiracy, with the overarching goal of preventing it from happening again (at least in the near future), and that means striking at the Eilservs faction of Dark Elves who are EEG-worshippers -- and even carrying the fight to the source of that power, the supreme Temple of the Eye, and possibly even the EEG itself. The Lolth-worshippers may not be looked at as less evil -- but for all the centuries they were in power, they at least didn't try to establish a puppet realm of giants on the surface world. Most importantly, they simply aren't the perpetrators the party was charged with bringing retribution to, long ago.

[GT]

It occurs to me that to some extent I have been thinking "in the box" too much insofar as the "battling" of the EEG is concerned---the "bad" ending would indeed have the entity loosed, but the "good" ending could be accomplished simply by managing to destroy its portal (perhaps, dramatically, as the creature is manifesting and zapping PC's... )

[GT]

BTW, I see that "gradual shift" occurring in the adventure during D3 as well...

[GRWelsh]

I think various endings have to be allowed for, as it cannot be assumed what player characters are going to do. I think Gary himself related the story that when he ran the G-D series, his players didn't even go into the Vault of the Drow, being too scared of it! Who can blame them? It's an entire city of a powerful and ancient evil race, chock full of evil priestesses, magic-users and demons. After fighting and killing many Dark Elves on the way there -- how many parties would assume they could just waltz into the Vault, without being detected for what they are, and then being terribly out-gunned, trapped and killed?!? Sharp check, indeed!

On the other hand, there are numerous other ways it could play out. A savvy party may have caught and interrogated Drow, to find out about the religious and political strife, and that humans could enter the city and with the right garb, broaches, etc. could expect to be relatively unmolested, if they don't bring undue attention to themselves (I'm guessing this is how Gary assumed it was most likely to play out, from the text itself). A party may even be willing to work with renegade Drow, half-Drow, or Lolth-worshippers -- who knows? A party may be more interested in what treasure they could gain, happy to kill any Drow they think they can get away with, along the way. And for a non-good party, working with Lolthists to slay EEG-worshippers -- or vice-versa -- may be just swell.

By D3, the series is pretty wide open. That scenario is ground-breaking, and as much a sourcebook (Gene, cover your eyes) as a module. The adventure is certainly no longer linear, at that point. So, I think our D4 could just be providing another valid ending to the series -- depending on what players do and how it all plays out.

[GT]

Well, frankly my idea is fairly simplistic: the D3 module states that the Eilserv temple to EEG is 2 hexes northwest of the Eilserv estate, so I'm gonna do a fancier version of the previous said temple (and maybe map out the estate too...) I haven't really progressed it beyond that... ^__^

[geneweigel]

Grashyewl wrote: By D3, the series is pretty wide open. That scenario is ground-breaking, and as much a sourcebook (Gene, cover your eyes) as a module.

Actually, its what all "source books" should have been.

Grashyewl wrote: The adventure is certainly no longer linear, at that point. So, I think our D4 could just be providing another valid ending to the series -- depending on what players do and how it all plays out.

GT wrote: Well, frankly my idea is fairly simplistic: the D3 module states that the Eilserv temple to EEG is 2 hexes northwest of the Eilserv estate, so I'm gonna do a fancier version of the previous said temple (and maybe map out the estate too...) I haven't really progressed it beyond that... ^__^

Theres all kinds of ways to go on this. I'm finding myself all over the "map" on this.

[GT]

GW is always all over the map... of Greyhawk!! ;D

[GT]

Maybe it's too bad we weren't on Gary's team circa 1981 to 1985, eh??

[Scott]

The party isn't just wandering around with no goal. They shouldn't need any more prodding at this point. The material in D3 is presented in sourcebook format, but it is still part of a very linear adventure, and Q1 should have been the ultimate conclusion to that linear adventure.
A party aware of their mission should have known that chasing Lolth didn't help with the goal they originally set out to achieve.
A motive for the raids needs to be devised, and tied to the EEG. Just a drow house worshipping the EEG isn't enough.
Maybe the raids were aimed at finding an artifact that is needed to release the EEG. Maybe the artifact is in the hands of a rival house, and the raids were aimed at gaining wealth/power or something to gain the artifact from the rival house.
Once the party reached the vault, the drow should have, or be close to getting the artifact. The party should find this out and try to stop it. This should take place on an island at a greater temple to the eeg.

[geneweigel]

I think despite whatever we come up with just keep Gary's style in mind the whole time then it should all be good when we ram it all together and shave off the non-Gygax extras. Skeleton is is superfluous to the content in this case. We need massive chunks of style going in all possible directions right now that we as fans would have liked it to go then we'll make the "sense" out of all it afterwards.

Even overly described stuff can be "Gygaxed down" in the end too.

[GT]

"A party aware of their mission should have known that chasing Lolth didn't help with the goal they originally set out to achieve.
A motive for the raids needs to be devised, and tied to the EEG. Just a drow house worshipping the EEG isn't enough.
Maybe the raids were aimed at finding an artifact that is needed to release the EEG. Maybe the artifact is in the hands of a rival house, and the raids were aimed at gaining wealth/power or something to gain the artifact from the rival house."

Good call, Scotty! That's the thing--it was linear, but we were diverted back in 1980; and frankly most of us were going: "well, we 'checked' this EEG thing, whatever it was; now let's get Lolth!" And, yes, Gene--we can crunch it all together and shape it when we're done!

[GT]

Going back-- I like the idea of an "artifact" in the hands of another. In Gary's original inspiration, it was a Ring--although the altar itself played a role too!

[GT]

Should I try to prod Arch-Oligarch Gary into visiting us again? ^__^