Citadel of Eight, Circle of Eight

[geneweigel]

Thats exactly whats going on but the outsiders are probably not aware of the tiers. This "outer ring" is most likely unaware of the details but they are all dropping important things to carry out this summons. They may be selected and then work their way in through missions. Thats the original impression that I had.

For example, Melf is an example of what I see as a low tier like Tenser but the IOTA pre-gens seem to be examples of a mysterious collection of Co8 "freshmen" or candidates. Not really aware that they are in the network but they've been catalogued to meet certain challenges when the time comes.

You know what I mean?

[Scott]

Yeah, but I wouldn't consider Tenser a low tier member.

[geneweigel]

The description specifically states that he isn't a "determiner" but is privy to them:

High above the Free City of Greyhawk,
somewhere upon the lonely south coast of
the Nyr Dyv, you and your associates
trekked to answer a summons that could
not be taken lightly. Adventurers of your
exalted status know much that lesser individuals
do not. The call issued by most
secret and occult channels. It was for only
the best and most powerful of Those Who
Serve. It came from a Fellow of the Circle
of Eight, but which of that August Body,
none of you knew until just a moment ago.
In answer, each of you set out from his or
her home to the teeming warrens of Greyhawk
City. In a secret rendezvous you met
your fellows for the first time, and as a
group you made the journey north and
came to the hidden fortress of Unknown
Depths. Now each of you is aware that the
Summoner was the renowned Tenser,
boon companion of many of the most
redoubtable adventurers in the Flanaess
and one who is privy to the Council of the
shadowy figures who are the determiners
of the course the world will take

So he isn't a "principal" like the four were described in MFA. They most likely are the original Circle of Eight of Gary's characters since Felnorith was one in AoE.

ANd here he describes the third tier or outer ring when he was in it.

"As my power grew, so did my determination to aid those seeking to maintain equilibrium. In due course I sought the circle of Eight, and in time I was accepted in their ranks. Now I sit as on one of the Eight Magi and am charged with overseeing the whole of the territory roundabout. As great is the need for my presence on the Isle, greater still is the demand for me to remain here, for great trouble brews even as I speak."

[Scott]

The Tenser info seems straight forward.
Felnorith seems to have evolved some for the books. Wasn't he an elf in the books?

[geneweigel]

I was just intensely reading AoE last night, Tenser not a member in that novel (Chapter 19 describes his entire layout practically as well). He seems distant from it as if describing Mordey as someone he doesn't really know when he's talking about the energy flow across the Flanaess being distorted by the artifact.

3 of the magical circle of eight died in the battle so they may have been looking for replacements at the end of the novel. (Chapter 29 this also shows Felnorith as a human lord like Yrag [called Eraj here] and the army of the Obsidian Citadel all in action. Bigby is present with the 7 other "Magical Circle of Eight" but aside from the two lords and Melf no other members are in this battle)

So this places IotA after AoE even though it came out a year prior.

AoE mentions the tiers of the Circle of Eight when Curley Greenleaf is describing the upcoming rise of Tharizdun to Gord in Chapter 4.

"How can little folk such as we hope to do what deities cannot? Rest assured, my good friends, that those far beyond our powers ask the same question.Still the Hierophants of the Cabal, Golden Dawn, and Rosy Cruciform stand ready to serve, as do high priests and arch-mages, the circles of each Archdruid, the tiers of the Circle of Eight, high and low, prince and peasant." [SNIP}"

In the rest of the paragraph he suggests that perhaps those six parts unitied will be enough to fight the tripartite evil. This kills the "high and low" being directly attached to the tiers line. He's talking about people in general. So the tiers of Co8 isn't described as dual at all and can be in multiple layers possibly matching Iuz and the SB's pattern of three.

Chapter 21 gives a detailed description of the Obsidian Citadel which is located right below the Clatspurs in general with no specific location but "eyeballing" the directions from there to other places it has to be that hex right where the Yatils meets the Clatspurs. There is no other choice.

[geneweigel]

And Mordenkainen is in that battle of course!

[geneweigel]

Clerics were present in the army but they didn't seem notable like Riggby.

[GT]

Maybe that was something from Jim Ward's "World of Greyhawk" book...

[geneweigel]

Jim Ward's book was so inept you could have been Kaspar Hauser and figured out it wasn't even an attempt at Sargent brand hackery. It was written in the ink of betrayal. Ward was his own worst enemy by accepting that job and it shows! Its as if he lost all ability to be cool. Which is what the good GH stuff is all about.