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Post by Scott on Sept 25, 2014 13:32:43 GMT -5
Robilar's Gnarley castle is definitely part of my Greyhawk, but so is the sacking. I just haven't decided where to put him if he shows up again. Or what alignment. Rob had mentioned him possibly becoming neutral again.
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Post by Scott on Sept 25, 2014 17:21:02 GMT -5
There were several small villages in Robilar's "barony". What would you think became of them when the castle fell? What would PCs that wandered into the hex find? I'd thought some orcs might have stayed, one of the dragons, some of the robots mentioned in the City of the Gods story. I know Robilar had hyrdas polymorphed into snails in a fountain close to the castle entrance that would had dispel magic cast on them when the castle was attacked.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 25, 2014 19:07:00 GMT -5
I think you should write it up, and have me play test it! Break out those colored pencils. I'll bet you could even get Rob himself to weigh in and provide some details. I would think the villages would revert to whatever status they had prior to Robilar establishing his fief -- either independent, or come back under control of one or more neighboring petty lords.
B1 "In Search of the Unknown" had this same scenario of "explore the player characters' abandoned stronghold" to see what is still there. It might be fun to have new players learn about Robilar's story by slowly exploring parts of his old stronghold. I suppose the ideal way I'd like it to go, if I DM'ed it, would be to have it slowly dawn on the players just whose abandoned stronghold this is -- assuming the players know who Robilar is, even if their characters did not.
The way I see it is the old grognards should try to immortalize some of the old, original gaming stories and details that they've been privileged to learn about... these are really treasures from the history of the hobby... and they should be worked into adventures, artwork, and other creative endeavors.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 25, 2014 21:51:23 GMT -5
I think Rob was supposed to make that into an adventure. For a time, I had thought that is what CASTLE ZAGYG: DARK CHATEAU (2005) was going to be.
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Post by Scott on Sept 25, 2014 22:13:41 GMT -5
Yeah, the Wreck of Robilar or something. One idea I had was that an undercover Robilar or Otto trick the party into going to the castle to retrieve some item they left there. There's some potential there, but it's down the list of areas I'd like to develop.
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Post by Scott on Sept 26, 2014 7:06:25 GMT -5
Based on the rules for building strongholds, the settlements around Robilar's castle probably grew up around the castle. It was probably the main source of commerce and protection. They'd probably be abondoned soon after the castle was sacked unless some new lord moved into the castle.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 26, 2014 11:29:16 GMT -5
Robilar anectdotal stories seem to reside firmly in another universe of Greyhawk as opposed to "World of Greyhawk 1980". His old campaign tales rely heavily on the OD&D 3 book set with Balrogs in every other castle, plus the way he associates AD&D Greyhawk (under Gygax) with any later product named "Greyhawk", makes it difficult to have the same feel that I'm used to. I could use his material regardless but why bother?
For the sake of argument, if I wanted to really look at it harshly, one could say real Greyhawk is about the ideas of the wizard Zagyg and not so much the user-end antics of original players most of which were louder than others because they were from gross behavior of juvenile players.
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Sept 27, 2014 21:27:08 GMT -5
I decided to add this to my campaign (yes; I know that the PC only went to 3rd level or so, but I took license! ^__^) Rary RA SX AL CL S I W D C CH LV HP AC H M N(E) M 10 15 10 15 14 10 10 19 4 Rary is noteworthy as a magic-user only in that he begrudged Mordenkainan his skill and power as a mage in the latter’s earlier days, and on several occasions attempted (unsuccessfully) to topple him from his position as the most capable mortal spell-caster! He came from a background of entitlement, and at early levels he insisted on being called “Medium Rary”, and it is well-known that he did not actually develop the spell that bears his name (Rary’s Mnemonic Enhancer), but rather managed to “obtain” the spell from a magic-user that disappeared under mysterious circumstances. He was last seen as a defeated and bitter mage with straggly gray hair and beard, known as “The Traitor”; and although rumored to have teamed up with Robilar, that is highly unlikely! He carries the following magic (which was purchased, and gives the illusion of greater power): staff of the magi, robe of protection +5, and Bucknard’s everfull purse. In fact, Rary did want to be called “Medium”; an old level name for a m-u from OD&D, and he never made it to the level necessary to develop Rary’s Mnemonic Enhancer in actuality. The remainder of the description is devised by me as a “slap” at the individual most responsible for ousting Gary Gygax from TSR in 1985/86. ^__^
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Sept 27, 2014 21:30:19 GMT -5
Hmmm... the top part didn't translate well, but I think everyone can figure it out...
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 29, 2014 11:04:37 GMT -5
I replied twice and it got backslided on my phone. So much for posting "on the fly"! Anyway, as I've mentioned, I have had a virtual Gary for so long that he morphed into my conception of Gary without knowing him. As for others, it might be interesting to feature actual magic items of characters but making a whole section out of Greyhawk campaign blurred memories might be too much on the user-end. For instance, filling out the Lordship of the Green Dragons' area (even if currently a ruin) might be spoiled by online comments from Rob Kuntz himself. As for my characters of old directly in campaign, there is a familiarity with even the ones that certain players haven't "met" yet so trying to say you find the Sword of So-and-So is perceived as we'd better give it back to him when he shows up. So in regard to finding let's say " Tenser's Ring" there might be the same sentiment.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 29, 2014 15:38:26 GMT -5
Yeah, those are good points. Drop a Tenser reference, and players might think Ernie Gygax is going to make a Skype cameo!
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Post by Scott on Sept 29, 2014 17:50:30 GMT -5
What?
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 29, 2014 18:43:26 GMT -5
Actually that would be pretty cool. Although highly improbable! But still...
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Post by Scott on Oct 2, 2014 20:56:59 GMT -5
So, looking at the map, the city would have grown up around the castle, so Old City should be the closest part of the city to the ruins. If the ruins are east of the city, they would be across the Grey Run. The only bridge across the Grey Run is at the south of the city, at Southgate. Three miles east of Old City could be a nine or 15 mile trek from Southgate. Oldgate would be the natural choice for an expedition to the castle, but the Grey Run east and north of the city make that impractical if you use the 2 - 3 miles away. At that distance, and using the map as is, placing the ruins north or northeast of Lordsgate seems like the only option. Northeast would work best for the 'oozy marsh' setting described in the Expedition to the Black Reservoir.
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Post by Scott on Oct 3, 2014 7:51:33 GMT -5
Last night I started working on a 1 mile per hex map of the area, but I started with the assumption that the castle was east of the city and Oldgate would be the starting point. I'm going to have to start over using Lordsgate as the starting point, and placing the ruins just north of that little branch of the Grey Run with the pool.
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 3, 2014 8:27:33 GMT -5
Zagyg came up with the new city at the same time period. The large urban dimensions of the Greyhawk map because is eroded magic. That is the fabulous nature that was once there has been taken over so using standard (if there is any) medieval measurements of population doesn't apply in the slightest. When I did the city map for the website Gary said it was North up the Lordsgate so that coincides with it being part of Zagyg's new city as The Processional goes right up to it in olden times probably with once fairer environs out of the gate.
OOPS it should be "The large urban dimensions of the Greyhawk map are because it is eroded magic."
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Post by Scott on Oct 3, 2014 8:35:06 GMT -5
And that gives meaning to Lordsgate too.
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Post by Scott on Oct 3, 2014 10:06:17 GMT -5
Suddenly it’s making more sense. I was considering the organic development of the city in relation to the castle of the original Landgraf of Selintan. I was forgetting about the boom years of the Zagig era, and the New City/New Castle.
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Post by GRWelsh on Oct 3, 2014 14:08:18 GMT -5
Then you've come up with the same castle placement that Gene had...
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Post by Scott on Oct 3, 2014 14:53:36 GMT -5
Well, I didn't really come up with it as much as went, 'Oh yeah...', after reading Gene's post.
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