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Post by Scott on Oct 21, 2015 8:19:08 GMT -5
I'd still love to see those adventures, but I don't have much hope. Game-related writing doesn't seem to be a priority with Rob right now, and when he does talk about possible projects, these don't come up.
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 21, 2015 11:26:09 GMT -5
I don't know, it sounded great in theory but I still am not sure whether or not Troll Lords helped or hindered Rob's quality and themes.
After that whole Maure Castle nightmare, I tend to lean towards the idea that they set him straight but added too much of their own sloppy style.
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Post by Scott on Oct 21, 2015 11:31:00 GMT -5
yeah, the TLG additions muddled it up some. if they wanted to add that it should have been a web 'enhancement' or something.
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Post by grodog on Oct 21, 2015 23:03:31 GMT -5
Add what? It sounds like you guys know quite a bit more about DD's publishing history---please share more! =)
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Post by Scott on Oct 22, 2015 5:55:40 GMT -5
Just some TLG production issues that were common at the time, and the World of Erde stuff.
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 22, 2015 8:40:12 GMT -5
This is the layout and in BOLD is what I believe might be almost completely rearranged from whatever he gave them but there might be more within the text. The maps seem very weirdly done and don't look like Kuntz's style either based on the various pile of maps that I went through with him at GenCon 2002 (one of which was the original "TSOJCONTH").
Author Preface Party Composition and Challenges Reading/lnterptreting the Module Text Player Introduction and Background Beginning the Adventure MAP of INDUNGWALD Background: The Battle and the Coming of N'Threxus Travelling to Fang Forest Outdoor Encounters Areas 1 - 6 Entry to Stronghold of Dark Druids (Map) The Dark Druids Keep: Dungeon Level One Dark Druids Stronghold Level One (Map) The Dark Druids Keep: Dungeon Level 2 Dark Druids Stronghold Level 2 (Map)\ Dark Druids Keep: Level 3 Dark Druids Stronghold Level 3 (Map) Ending the Adventure Playing out the Quest: Dark Druids and Beyond ... Dark Quest Series (Capsules) Appendix A: New Monsters Appendix B: New Magic Items APPENDIX C: DARK DRUIDS NEW PRESTIGE CLASS Dark Druid Sects Descriptions "DARK DRUIDS" IN THE WORLD OF ERDE
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 22, 2015 11:22:37 GMT -5
Before I forget, can I ask, in regards to the version that is for sale, is it Kuntz's original material before adapted for D20 or is it an adaptation of the D20 TLG?
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Post by GRWelsh on Oct 23, 2015 7:34:01 GMT -5
Earlier in the thread Allan wrote: "It's based on the expanded 1e/CU version that Rob published as a download several years ago via PPP, but never printed."
And this was on the Chaotic Henchmen website:
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 23, 2015 10:04:04 GMT -5
I was looking for DARK DRUIDS talk in my e-mails and its nothing but superficialities (Immediately after the 2002 publication, I pointed out how the map on page 13 was misspelled and prior to the 2002 publication, Rob says that DARK DRUIDS is a Greyhawk module that he is working on.).
Interspersed with all the drama e-mails of my time as a never paid employee of PIED PIPER PUBLICATIONS... Heh, I just found the e-mail where he asked me to do all the graphics for the websites and logos. Honestly? I completely forgot that I never volunteered for that. I've been looking at a file filled with images for years and forgot he had asked me to do it. What a waste of energy! I have several redone banner for the EZ messageboard and what looks like an attempt at redoing logos. Also an advertisement for THE BARBAROUS COAST.
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 23, 2015 10:35:25 GMT -5
What is the story wioth the BARBAROUS COAST? Was that shitcanned? I thought everyone was supposed to have a character based on them in "Jepton". Thats it... I'm driving to Wisconsin....
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Post by Scott on Oct 23, 2015 13:47:32 GMT -5
I may still have that somewhere. Another product that I would have liked to see, even though I always thought Rob should focus on Kalibruhn.
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Post by geneweigel on Oct 23, 2015 14:33:27 GMT -5
It looks like, from my PPP file folders, that I had started redoing the maps for his world and then when PPP went down like the Titanic I had halted abruptly.
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Post by Scott on Jan 1, 2016 16:34:24 GMT -5
Running this adventure, it's got some issues. The main opponents, the druids, are pretty easy to take out. They're engaged in this civil war and easy to take off guard. They're lightly armored, and druid spells have high casting times. The party kind of mowed through them, interrupting their spells and cutting them to bits. There are some very tough encounters in the adventure, but most of the dark druid encounters did not fall into this category. They could use more meat shields. I was thinking dark bards might be a good addition too.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 7, 2016 21:50:18 GMT -5
You know there is a lot of muddled info on Wikipedia. It says Pied Piper Publishing started in 2006 and stopped in 2010. So what the hell were we dicking around on that messageboard all that time for? As an aside, the intensity of the CITY OF BRASS publication talk in the e-mails seems like it was really going to blow me away but the thing that he made was some sad sauce. Afterwards he's saying there is a manuscript that he didn't give them but I can't tell if he's trying to save face or not.
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Post by Scott on Jan 8, 2016 9:25:45 GMT -5
Yeah, City of Brass was a big downer. I think the HackMaster version that was published after the Necromancer deal fell apart was an incomplete manuscript from Rob filled in by a Kenzer writer. Never looked at it.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 8, 2016 13:03:39 GMT -5
At one part in the e-mails, he is enraged at Gary stealing his idea for the City of Brass (an old legend BTW which I knew at the time) and I'm totally confused by the betrayal. Then I follow up this with an e-mail to Gary to defuse the situation then Gary says that he isn't going to do it. DAMN! You mean... THIS could have happened if I didn't mention it? Wait... on second thought, Gary's CITY OF BRASS would have been an even worse disappointment because it probably would have been assembled by the rounding up of his usual suspects of nerd asshats who worked for free! Seriously, Rob had played Gary out years prior (early 1990's?) but I got only the READER'S DIGEST version plus I didn't want to believe that there was no hope for D&D and Greyhawk so I was just trying to make it happen. I was so steamed that I had never got a reply from Len Lakofka about working with Kuntz and Gygax so thats how crazed and blind I was at that time. I had no idea all this bad blood was with the guys from the real TSR. That vision that I was pushing for I don't even think ever existed in any form whatsoever. Coincidence of trends among the staff was the major hand of the good years of D&D and not necessarily the staff themselves but rather what they aimed for as a whole which had worn away with new trends. DARK DRUIDS the unpublished series has potential but I think post modern adventure modules need one step more content than the original classic AD&D era modules and Kuntz does not understand that. He's too busy worried about not having to pay for extra labor and trend watching that its distracting from his ideas.
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Post by Scott on Jan 8, 2016 22:50:36 GMT -5
I was looking forward to seeing the Dark Quest series. The outline looked pretty epic. I'm still a fan of Rob's published stuff. I would have liked to see some Kalibruhn setting stuff.
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Post by geneweigel on Jan 10, 2016 19:31:47 GMT -5
The Kuntz modules were offering advanced play but these later edition conversions are offering crumbled husks that are worthless. For example, while we're on the subject, if you compare SIR ROBILAR'S CITY OF BRASS to TO THE CITY OF BRASS then not only is this confirmed but its true down to the letter of gameplay. Kuntz gives the players a magic item that gave them efreeti appearance for around a month and the Hackmaster hack designer adds some longwinded history that to has to be remembered that permits humans into the City of Brass. My immediate complaint to Rob was over the map layout being abandoned for some overkeyed redone mess but the heart of the problem was the way all of it was presented. Another example of this that needs no explanation is the shit that was is in the "geeklerized" Maure Castle (gnoll bard, etc) just the feel for starters was reprehensible tripe from the RPG du jour of the time.
For Kuntz (and Gary) to stand by that crap was a total mindfuck.
Its just pencilled ideas and if the work can't be publicly presented then is there anything left to present? I want DARK DRUIDS continuance more than anything D&D being published but it has to live up to its potential.
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Post by Scott on Jan 11, 2016 23:14:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I remember Rob not even being clear on what was done. He assumed gnoll bard was just used in some sort of game mechanic way, and it was just a above average gnoll with some spell singing powers. I had to break it to him that it was a puffy shirt wearing harp collecting dandy of a gnoll bard.
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Post by grodog on Jan 11, 2016 23:37:44 GMT -5
The original RJK City of Brass mss. is just under 90,000 speeds, and probably needs another 30-60K words to wrap it up (with 15-30K of that gap being another long adventure or two mini-adventures). It definitely exists, I have print and electronic versions of it. Once Rob wraps up other projects, COB is something Black Blade intends to print.
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