D&D 4E

[Scott]

It looks like WotC may be announcing 4E at Gen Con this year. All of the D&D links on the WotC site now link to a counting down timer with the header "4DVENTURE".

Scott

[Scott]

Here's the link by the way:
www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome

[Scott]

I have to admit to a certain amount of schadenfreude as I read the anguished posts of all the betrayed 3.5 players on EN World. Even the big EN himslef, Eric Noah, is commenting, at one point calling the end of EN World.

Scott

[GRWelsh]

Heh, heh. Schadenfreude. That's a good word.

I'm indifferent, myself. The very idea of "keeping up with the latest edition" is for suckers.

[geneweigel]

Theres some info like race progression on the site.

It just seems like there is going to be even more naively baroque play that entirely will make Hasbro's products into "unD&D" once and for all.

[GT]

"Heh, heh. Schadenfreude. That's a good word."

I was so totally gonna say the same thing! How'd you dredge that word out, Scotty?? ^__^

[geneweigel]

He's been waiting for years...

[ghul]

Here is a look at a 4e stat block: www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dramp/20080125&authentic=true

[geneweigel]

It actually seems downplayed at first but it snaps as you go.

One of the big drags about that particular brand of D&D isn't the rules it is the flavor that pours over into the rules. Thats why I can't even pretend to deal with it anymore. Hasbro can go back to the original "Gary" or they can continue the Blume/Williams' legacy in these new forms. Thats the bottom line to me. They set the money standard that everyone seems to follow so they have have to be held accountable.

Sometimes I wish I could just hand out fliers at GenCon every year that say what bullshit the people were handed as D&D for so long that they're willing to take anything with a logo on it.

Yeah, right! I'm more of a "crash through the front door in a Hummer with a bullhorn yelling out the window:

NEW D&D IS FOR NANCYS!!! AARRRR!!!! AAARRRR!!! AAARRR!!!! AAARRR!!!!"...!!!

[GT]

There's alot of carping on many of the boards... Ultimately, the players forget that ever since T$R (2E era... ), it's been more about the money than the fans--big companies are all about the bottom line, and that's just how it is. Once the sales of the core books of an edition level off or drop, and every conceivable "splat book" is done, what can you do to regenerate sales? Make a new edition of course! I called this one seven years ago, and I'll call it again in six or seven more--watch for 5E!! Unless of course I win the lottery, in which case I'll buy the system (as well as Mythus!) outright and give it back to Gary. Then he'll have all three of his systems again! ^__^

[Falconer]

I figure it’s like how deCamp “kept Conan alive.” Eventually there were literally hundreds of Conan books by nobodies, and people said, okay, enough of the crap, what is the REAL Conan? Which is why now the pure Howard is finally back in print, after so many decades.

Eventually there will have been so many “D&D editions” that the brand name will become meaningless. I’m convinced that it is only a matter of time before there will be enough clamor for “give us the real Gygax D&D” that Hasbro will bow to it (cash in). But how long?

[Scott]

I was a mildly curious at first, to the extent that I would probably have purchased the core books, but the more I’ve read about it, the lamer it gets. The little interest I had has now been completely stamped out.

[GT]

Ever seen the movie "Idiocracy"? It's about the continual dumbing down of everything, and it's ultimate consequences--presented in a Mike Judge sorta humorous way. At any rate; "Simplifying D&D" You know, part of the draw for me in the beginning was the complexity and how it all made sense in a game fashion... Starting with 2E splats and culminating in 3/3.5E it was about adding ad nauseum... now they're gonna go the opposite way--less planes, less classes, etc. We had Basic D&D and AD&D 1E and they weren't broke in any way that individual DM's couldn't "fix", so... ah, well

[Scott]

Oh, I don't think they're going less. I just thing they are going less initially so there is more splat later.

[GT]

THey've broken the "ring of the Outer Planes", Scotty!!! We are all surely DOOMED!!!!! ^__^

[ghul]

I understand that companies need to make money. But D&D is a game. It should have a core product that does not radically change over the years: OD&D --> Holmes --> Moldvay --> Mentzer --> Cyclopedia --> ? .

A stock product that fans can always fall back to, like any other classic game, whether it be Monopoly, RISK, Axis & Allies, etc. All other "editions," in my opinion, should be variants of that core game. Maintain your core audience! There are a lot of folks out there, so it seems, who played in the 70's and 80's, fell out of gaming (college, women, wine, etc.), and now at middle age desire to come back to it, to either play with their old buddies or to teach their kids. What they find is something unrecognizable upon return, and frankly intimidating in many instances. So, they either go away, or they dig up the old game in their basement or buy it on eBay. Some of them even find sites like DF, soon discovering there is a community they can identify with playing classic D&D, AD&D, and even some of spin-offs and simulacrums, like C&C or OSRIC or BFRPG.

We know there is a huge audience for computer RPGs these days and the P&P game will likely never be what it once was, which is a shame because you have kids sitting on their computers alone instead of socially interacting with a peer group. My buddies and I played D&D every day! But I just don't understand why the powers that be at WotC do not embrace the original game. The one called Dungeons & Dragons. How many of those 30-somethings and 40-somethings do they lose who would like to "just play D&D" again?

[GT]

It's too bad--even when I started playing D&D back in 1978, it was still kind of a "cultish" phenomena... you either 'got it' when you were finally exposed to it, or you didn't. We all rolled our eyes as the media reported on those "adversely affected by the game" and at movies that tried to profit off of the phenomena. But it was OK that it was a smaller group--we were all sci fi/fantasy/comic/monster movie "nerds" and we didn't care how many people liked or played--all that mattered was that this rag-tag collection of individuals, most of whom didn't even know each other before gaming, had a great time! Several of us even got together and rented a house together--a House of Gamers! How fun was that? And having to track down those esoteric books, dice, figures and magazines (as well as SPI and AH games, et al) at a couple of secluded stores in Lafayette--not a mega-bookstore or toy store--that was just added relish! Yep; it wouldn't hurt to go back to the start and remember what it was all about--if such a thing was possible! ^__^

[GT]

...In a way, Gary's porch is like this mystical bastion of the past, where the "old ways" are preserved against the powers that would erode them. Sounds corny, but hell, it was fun to just kick back and down a beverage of choice while relating past games and anecdotes; let alone actually gaming! ^__^

[Scott]

gt said:

THey've broken the "ring of the Outer Planes", Scotty!!! We are all surely DOOMED!!!!! ^__^

I've already completely written off published D&D and Greyhawk, so it's all a moot issue now anyways, but normally I wouldn't worry about what they break in the core books, because it's not setting specific. It was dumbing or 'blanding' down the Greyhawk stuff that annoyed me, like taking the neutral out of Cuthbert and Pholtus, or taking the axe awat from Hieroneous.

[GT]

"I figure it’s like how deCamp “kept Conan alive.” Eventually there were literally hundreds of Conan books by nobodies, and people said, okay, enough of the crap, what is the REAL Conan? Which is why now the pure Howard is finally back in print, after so many decades."

Well, Mike I agree with the intent here, but it was the Carter/DeCamp 12-volume ACE series I was able to get in the 70's and 80's, so I tip my hat to that--but not the scads of imitators that came after, wielding the "Conan name" like a bloody sword! Also, I met Sprague and his wife back in the late 80's--a true Southern gentleman, and both of them kind and generous! As for Lin Carter, he was instrumental in bringing back the likes of C. A. Smith and others for a new generation, so he's good in my book as well... BUT, THAT SAID.... I am glad that the original Howard material is back for us! Yea!!! ^__^