Queen of the Demonweb Pits

[Scott]

I started reading through this again recently, and I have to say I really think it's awful. I think it was 84 the last time I read it, and it didn't seem so bad then, but when I read through the GD series, knowing it ends with Q1, what a downer. The whole EEG thing is just left hanging, Lolth had nothing to do with the giants. Lolth's abysal plane might make a good sub-level in a dungeon, but as an Abysall plane??? The whole giant mechanical spider thing?? What a pity Gary's conclusion never made it to publication.

Scott

[geneweigel]

Its almost like there is too much "I'm a writer" exhuberance in Q1 and not enough care for simple continuity in Gygax's stuff.

The contents of "the EGG" are the obvious ties to the TOEE with them being based on classical elemental shapes.

I still think the hypothetical "demonweb that never was" is some sort of spidery annex to the TOEE or at the very least a TOEE connection is featured somewhere in the real unpublished adventure.

[Scott]

Talk about lack of continuity, how does a party sent to punish giants controlled by drow that follow the EEG end up in Lolth's Demonic Dish Towel?
The contents of the egg and the four shapes might have originally had a link with the EEG, who was supposed to play a big part in the GD finale and in the ToEE, but he was a no show in both.

Scott

[geneweigel]

Thats true.

Perhaps something like: "E1 ___________ ___________ of the Elder Elelmental God" or some such would've wrapped it up correctly.

Frankly, I would've preferred it in the form of E1-45 and have been the longest running series of adventures ever but...

[dcas]

I always had the impression that the sequel to D3 would take place on the Sunless Sea. That's where D3 ends, anyway, not at the Fane of Lolth.

[geneweigel]

Yeah it does seem that way every time I reread I hope to keep on going although "THE EGG" specifically had the note this will be of use only if you continue the adventure to QUEEN OF THE DEMONWEB PITS and at the wharf it declared so ends the descent.

Wah wah waaaahhhh

DAMMIITT!!!



On an aside, I believe drow should of had more detail to ward off the later misuse. I don't believe a commercial retread even by Gygax would be of any use to anybody as any creative bends towards "the market" would just have them utilize all the later parasitic and useless "drow barnacles" to satisfy all the "Greenwoodsian uberfreaks" and we end up with Menzoberranzan II. Bleh!

[Scott]

geneweigel said:

Yeah it does seem that way every time I reread I hope to keep on going although "THE EGG" specifically had the note this will be of use only if you continue the adventure to QUEEN OF THE DEMONWEB PITS and at the wharf it declared so ends the descent.

I'm guessing the tie to Q1 was added after it had been decided to go that direction, and that the original use of the egg was different.

Scott

[grodog]

While I still like elements from Q1, I agree that it has little logical relationship to the G/D series, and to D3 in particular. I wonder if the original ToEE ms. that was sold at GenCon last year (and returned by Frank to Gary at LGGC this year) would shed any light on the original sequel to D3? I imagine we'll never know

Relatedly, I imagine that you guys have read Merric's article on CF! about the G/D vs. Q series logic? It's at www.canonfire.com/cfhtml/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=165

[Scott]

I agree there are some cool aspects of Q1. It would a cool level in a big dungeon.

[gantry]

Yes the illogic of battling Lolth when the EEG and his followers were the badies in Giants bugged me alot when I used it back in early eighties. Of course, my crew never figured it out anyway...sigh.

However, Gygax always said that outer plane mumbo-jumbo could be and mostly should be "out there" in common sense. From his list of suggested reading (Edgar R. Burrows, etc.) and his love of his two modules-- Dungeonland and Land Beyond the Magic Mirror--I just always figured he liked that sort of thing. My old copy of the module (Q1) has Gary's ringing praise of Sutherlands' idea.

Personally I liked it by and large, and I focused mainly on the worlds the party visited. I originated quite a few, and the campaign at just that point took three years to get through. May be too much for some, but they enjoyed it. And no, they didn't "get" the Demon Queen.

[grodog]

For some inspirational reading about how to develop the evil faerie alternate prime from Q1, read Sepulchrave's "Tales of Wyre" story @ www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=58227 The action moves to that plane starting on page 2, but it's well-worth reading the earlier story to contextualize the characters, enemies (lots of demons), etc. Good stuff!