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Post by Axe Mental on Oct 30, 2005 8:42:34 GMT -5
Was there ever a necromancer class created or mentioned by TSR 1E? A necromancer being a MU subclass that deals strongly with the undead, demons, devils, "black magic" the occult (kind of a mix between an evil cleric and MU).
I remember one of the main villians in the Gord Novels (can't recall his name, but the one that resulted in the death of many of his key friends) having a necromancer feel (either being a wizard/cleric, or a subclass of wizard).
If no such class was ever created, is there one that exists in another game system that could be plugged in to 1E (and with slight alterations be made to work)?
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Post by Scott on Oct 30, 2005 11:23:10 GMT -5
There was a necromancer in Dragon.
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Post by grodog on Oct 30, 2005 21:12:02 GMT -5
In addition to Len Lakofka's Death Master in Dragon 76, there was a version published in WD, though I don't recall the issue # offhand (can check later if you're curious).
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Post by axeguest on Oct 31, 2005 8:28:07 GMT -5
Q: "Len Lakofka's Death Master in Dragon 76,"
Is that the same one your thinking about Scott?
Q: "there was a version published in WD, though I don't recall the issue # offhand (can check later if you're curious)."
If its not too much trouble, and at your convieniance, it would be very interesting to see it. The Dragon I should be able to get my hands on but White Dwarf is more problematic. If you could post it that would be great.
Thanks!
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Post by axeguest on Oct 31, 2005 8:41:58 GMT -5
Just checked out the Death Master here: www.necromancergames.com/pdf/deathmaster.pdfWas this created for 2E? I'm unfamiliar with some of these requirements (skills, ranks, and features?). I'm wondering if this would really be a necromancer, it's only called a death master. It just doesn't seem to describe whats been depicted in films and books (more of a magician with an interest in occult, demons, undead, etc.). This guys described as hanging out at graveyards collecting bones, I'm almost reminded of a more earthy almost shamanic type NPC (despite its magical abilities). Overall, disappointing. Granted its a tuff class to attempt create.
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Post by Scott on Oct 31, 2005 9:04:56 GMT -5
I don't think it's the same one, but I can't be sure. I remember it beinag around a lot longer ago then the 2E days, but I wasn't that impressed with most of the Dragon classes.
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Post by talmor on Mar 13, 2008 9:33:02 GMT -5
Er, this is a 3.5 prestige class. I don't even think you could translate it back to AD&D. I've never heard of a necromancer class for AD&D, figuring it was more a matter of a MU focus than an actual class. Though, really, I've often found that evil clerics make better necros than MU.
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Post by Scott on Mar 13, 2008 9:46:01 GMT -5
The necro was a 1E class from dragon magazine. I think the necro games death master was a conversion from an older dragon magazine article too.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 13, 2008 10:09:02 GMT -5
The DEATH MASTER was an npc subclass of magicuser who specialized in necromancy from one of Lenard Lakofka's last few "LEOMUND'S TINY HUT" articles. It was in #76 (Aug 1983) the article was copyrighted Lenard Lakofka and E. Gary Gygax. So it can be looked at as "official AD&D" at the time.
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dcas
Warlock
Duke of Pennsylvania, Knight Commander
Posts: 481
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Post by dcas on Mar 13, 2008 11:16:05 GMT -5
The HackMaster "blood mage" would be a good substitute.
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Post by grodog on Mar 13, 2008 21:43:55 GMT -5
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Post by GRWelsh on Mar 15, 2008 11:02:58 GMT -5
The role of the necromancer in 1e AD&D is best filled by an evil cleric rather than a magic-user. An evil cleric can animate dead earlier than a magic-user can, has access to speak with the dead, and can turn undead to his will. In 1st edition, life/death and poison-related spells are necromantic. Clerics have the heavy hitting necromantic spells: raise dead/slay living, heal/harm, restoration/energy drain, regeneration/wither, resurrection/destruction. The 1st edition cleric is superior to the magic-user when it comes to destroying/creating/controlling/communicating with undead. To start giving a magic-user class access to these powers, IMO, just waters down the cleric class and blurs the distinction between these two archetypes.
I'd say the Gravestone character from the Gord novels would be best represented as a dual-class cleric/magic-user who had attained such status as to gain access to powers not normally had (by means of spell research, special abilities gained through study or granted by infernal entities, etc.) -- i.e., more of a unique quasi-deity-like personage than a normal character class out of the PH.
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GT
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Post by GT on Mar 15, 2008 11:39:19 GMT -5
Indeed--Gravestone was a prototype for some concepts Gary later realized in MYTHUS, and was beyond anything obtainable by normal mortals in AD&D.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 15, 2008 13:26:48 GMT -5
If you reread the Death Master they become Orcus worshippers at high levels if they aren't already. Then they when they die they are made into special undead by Orcus. Its all specifically reiterated and insisted that they are for NPCs only. My brother had like 4 death master pcs... No problems. Seriously, as you know I don't have any problem with a player making up his own classes/spells as long as they do it intelligently and don't mind my input if I think it sounds cockamammy . If they start taking a geeky advantage of an oversight then I'll be the first one to stomp on their nuts when the walls of a now bent reality come crashing down on their head.
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Post by geneweigel on Nov 10, 2012 23:35:13 GMT -5
There was a post-Gygax AD&D Necromancer that was the basis of the 2E specialists, it was featured in an article in POLYHEDRON #28 (MAR 1986) THE SPECIALIST MAGE Unofficial New Spells for the Necromancer by Jon Pickens. Pickens continued this line in the development of second edition leaving out most of the spells but they were later reintegrated in the COMPLETE BOOK OF NECROMANCERS (1995) by someone else but some are relabeled. I had the "COMPLETE BOOK" and thought some of it was new but I guess it wasn't. Doesn't matter it was just as unbearable as the rest of the books in that series. Bloviated and boring. NOTE: The article and the rest of the mag issue isn't that great being post-Gygax and isn't worth tracking down!
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Nov 1, 2017 13:31:53 GMT -5
Allan: I like your take on the necromancer class! Have you or are you aware of others who have developed other 1e expansion classes that were contemplated by EGG such as: elementalist (geo-urge); sorcerer (demon-urge); savant? I am going to offer expanded PC classes to kick off a fresh Greyhawk campaign, including Trent's expansions and modified classes.
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Post by grodog on Nov 4, 2017 22:49:39 GMT -5
Allan: I like your take on the necromancer class! Have you or are you aware of others who have developed other 1e expansion classes that were contemplated by EGG such as: elementalist (geo-urge); sorcerer (demon-urge); savant? Dave--- Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed my necromancer Len Lakofka co-wrote a Pyrologist class with Gary in his "The Wizard" zine #3 in 1977. IIRC it's typed up on DF somewhere? I'm not familiar with the geo-urge and demon-urge classes---perhaps from DJ or LA?? Allan.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Nov 20, 2017 16:03:41 GMT -5
Allan: I like your take on the necromancer class! Have you or are you aware of others who have developed other 1e expansion classes that were contemplated by EGG such as: elementalist (geo-urge); sorcerer (demon-urge); savant? Dave--- Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed my necromancer Len Lakofka co-wrote a Pyrologist class with Gary in his "The Wizard" zine #3 in 1977. IIRC it's typed up on DF somewhere? I'm not familiar with the geo-urge and demon-urge classes---perhaps from DJ or LA?? Allan.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Nov 20, 2017 16:05:18 GMT -5
How many starting spells would a first level necromancer have in his spell book?
So intelligence and wisdom ability scores are averaged then use the bonus spells table per PHB?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Nov 20, 2017 16:29:03 GMT -5
Can an elven or half-elven character be multi-classed: necromancer/fighter; necromancer/assassin; necromancer/thief; necromancer/fighter/thief? What would be the necromancer level limits for half-elves and the various elven sub-races?
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