Casey
Evoker
"I do not care to listen; obloquy injures my self esteem and I am skeptical of praise."
Posts: 15
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Post by Casey on Nov 3, 2004 11:03:25 GMT -5
GT,
Good to meet you, man. Having never been to a convention, it would have been a different Casey that you met.
Casey
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Post by Axe Mental on Nov 3, 2004 17:19:44 GMT -5
ScottyG This is an interesting idea. However, I agree with Casey, this is a can of worms. For several reasons I don't think I would go in this direction. First, it seems it would defeat the "look" of the game to much. Paladins and Clerics, the two classes most likely to battle such things as wraiths, shadows, etc. are always walking around in plate (when possible). Suddenly, this would be useless. Second: if such creatures are passing freely through objects they would pass freely through flesh. Yes, they could present an attack by some means (negative energy, partial plane shifting), but I think the idea is if they get the chance to attack you they are doing any form of attack to the outside of the armor rather then passing through it. In the case of Shocking Grasp the armor is just a conductor, not so with negative energy. Anyhow, touch attack for this kind of thing isn't to my knowledge, mentioned anyware in the MM, and the spell touch attacks Scotty mentioned go through the clothing or armor touched while the hand doing the touching does not. So, it would seem that the touch attack made by the creature would work the same, hitting the armor and the effect going through it. Another consideration, would this upset the balance of the game and be introducing a combat system of sorts for just a few monsters. It seems just as logical that the creatures mentioned turn solid at the moment before their hand touches the armor rather then first passing through the armor. And I would also rule that these particular monsters can't pass through living flesh, and I would consider anything that living flesh wares (cloths, armor, etc. ) an extension of that flesh. Getting caught up in too much detail and logic might defeat the point of the game and feel of the monsters in question.
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Post by Scott on Nov 3, 2004 17:40:49 GMT -5
I've always assumed they could pass through flesh. One of the tactics Gary mentions in the Slayers Guide is that they try to make attacks while within other characters, and recieve a cover bonus while doing it. IMO, passing through is not the same as an attack. The attack is a focused attempt, perhaps momentarily strengthening thal link to the negative material plane. Scott
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Post by Scott on Nov 3, 2004 19:04:08 GMT -5
The first time I tried this rule, it ended up very ugly. I was DMing part of Greyhawk Ruins. The party, consisting of a fighter, a magic-user, and some of their henchmen entered a small area with a hall and several rooms. They entered one of the rooms. The fighter crossed the room to investigate a door or something, the party stood back, with their backs just about to the wall behind them ready to attack. Suddenly, from behind, the party gets surprised by a spectre and two wraiths that passed through the wall behind them. The surprise attacks devastated the party. The undead won initiative on the next round, and I was sure it was going to be a TPK. Several henchmen were lost, along with many levels, but the PCs managed to survive. Earlier in the dungeons, Milrick, the party’s fighter had another memorable encounter with level draining undead. A portion of a corridor had collapsed leaving just a tiny space too small for a human to crawl through. After several minutes of debate, the party convinced Milrick to drink a potion of diminution and investigate. Tiny Milrick crawled through the collapse into the corridor beyond. Without warning, he was rushed, and surprised, by two full-sized wights. Milrick made it back into the tiny space untouched, but only because of some incredibly poor rolls by the wights. Scott
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Post by Axe Mental on Nov 3, 2004 21:38:59 GMT -5
Scotty: "IMO, passing through is not the same as an attack. The attack is a focused attempt, perhaps momentarily strengthening thal link to the negative material plane." Scott
Come to think of it, thats how I would look at it too. I guess I ment just the attack portion. So, the inside of a person couldn't be attacked, just the outside of the person. That way, yeah, they could attack a victim from inside another person (though I would allow the person to save against being used in this fashion, after all a full minute of jumping around, it would be tough to keep up with.
Scotty, what about the spell wraith form (from UA) I think thats what it's called. Doesn't that allow the caster to pass through cracks but not through solid objects. I suppose that this does not make you into a real wraith, but does it give you the same abilities as a wraith (thus some insite into how they work)?
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Post by Scott on Nov 3, 2004 23:49:23 GMT -5
Based on the description of the spell, I would say that it is not give the illusionist the same abilities as a wraith. Scott
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