Skills in AD&D

[Scott]

Has anybody used a skill system in their game besides the 2E NWP or 3E system? I don't like the idea of skills being added to level advancement. Perhaps a system where skill advancement is tracked outside the class based, experience point driven leveling system. Maybe a system that bases skill advancement on use and success might work better. That way you don’t end up with 3E-style 20th level bakers with 60 HPs.
Scott

[Lord Cias]

I don't use skills in AD&D, but if I did it would probably something similar to C&C's system, only the character's level wouldn't affect the roll (usually). Instead, the character could get skill points to increase his "skill level" separate of his class level. This could even be tied in with secondary skills.

This system is superior to 2e's because it allows ability scores to play a part, but they are not all important. It is also better than 3e's system because, well, ANYTHING would be better than 3e!!

[Scott]

I haven't used skills in my 1E game yet, but I've been reading through the Mythus rules, and I really like how skills are handled in the system. I like the additional customization skills could provide; I just haven't liked any of the systems offered for D&D yet. A system based on ability scores, with potential improvement handled outside class level seems like the way to go.
Scott

[Lord Cias]

I'm not familar with Mythus, how are skills handled in that game?

The problem with skills in D&D is two fold. On one hand, the skills have to be fairly complex and difficult enough to justify a task resolution system (i.e. the skills would have to be a little more difficult than a "getting dressed" or a "ladder climbing" skill). But if the skills are highly specialized and relatively difficult, then it logically follows that many class skills should be included in the general skills system, especially thief skills. If a fighter can learn astrology and herbalism, why couldn't he learn to find or remove a trap? If a wizard can spend years learning to be a master swordsmith, why couldn't he invest all of that time and energy into using a sword and fighting better? Skills in D&D are a slippery slope, IMO.

Not that it couldn't be done, I just think that it is a little more work to actually come up with an entire functional and logical skill advancement system than what it's worth. I would be interested in what you come up with, though, if you do include one.

[dcas]

Scott said:

Has anybody used a skill system in their game besides the 2E NWP or 3E system? I don't like the idea of skills being added to level advancement. Perhaps a system where skill advancement is tracked outside the class based, experience point driven leveling system. Maybe a system that bases skill advancement on use and success might work better. That way you don’t end up with 3E-style 20th level bakers with 60 HPs.

HackMaster does this, but the skill system is too complicated for my tastes. Every time you train to advance a level, you have a chance of gaining new skills or improving your current skills. Improvement is dependent on a number of factors, including how well you play your character and if you've had any 'critical successes' with your skills. You can also train when you're not levelling, although it's expensive.

[AndyS]

How about the system they used in the old Stormbringer game?
It was percentile based so your skills had percent chances to succeed. And whenever you successfuly used a skil during the adventure, after the adventure was over you got to roll percentil dice and if you rolled OVER your skill level then you got to add 1D10 to your skill.

So for example, if you had Climb at 45% and at some point in the adventure you rolled under your climb skill and succeeded then after the adventure was finished you got to roll percentile dice and anything over 45 meant that you got to add 1-10 to your climb skill.

Its a cool system because it gets harder to improve as you get better, obviously.

Maybe a modified version of this where you get to add 1D4 or something would work pretty good.

[AndyS]

And the starting skill level could be based on whatever ability score most fit the skill. So like Swim would be STR based so at 1st level if you had Swim as a skill and 12 STR then you have Swim at 12%.

Or maybe you get a certain amount of percentile points based on your INT at first level to distribute in whichever skills you want.

[GT]

In many ways, that was similar to MYTHUS. I never used skills in AD&D 'cause I just wanted to keep it simple...

[Falconer]

I let each player roll a d100 for one (no more, no less) Secondary Skill according to the table in the DMG. That seems like enough for me. Characters all know how to ride, how to swim, how to use a rope, and how to read and write, unless it's against their character concept. Anything else outside the rules, they have to convince me that they can do it based on their class or secondary skill. If it's reasonable, I'll buy it. Regards.

[dcas]

I would like to see a more comprehensive list of professions (let's face it, that's what the secondary skills are). A character should be able to do anything associated with that profession at a high level of ability (perhaps he was a journeyman but not yet a master).

Also, if memory serves, the secondary skills table has entries for "roll twice" and "no skills of measurable worth."

[Falconer]

Yeah, I ignore those results. Regards.

[JRMapes]

We had a convoluded system yrs ago. Basically created a list of possibles for each class based with each related to an ability. Checks were d20 with ability score modifier. Was able to trade Language slots for skill slots to start. So not everyone would have extra skills at start. Each started randomly in skill level based on d10. So you began with at most a 50% chance of success. Each had a 5% increment at leveling up based on if you successfully used the skill 20 or more times sine last leveling up. If so then you paid 500xp to take it up one notch, If you wanted to buy into a new skill you had pay 1500xp + 500xp per skill level. Starting skill level for the buy in was determined by a d4 roll.

IIRC the ability score bonuses were pretty vanilla
3 to 6 / -1 to -4
7 to 14 / +0
15 to 18/ +1 to +4

we used it for one campaign and it never resurfaced.

Jerry#nosmileys

[DragonFire]

We haven't been able to come up with a good skills system either. We use the skills started in UA (barbarian's) and in OA. The skills expanded in WSG and DSG, so we took those and a couple from the 2E PHB.

Non-Weapon Proficiencies:

Rolls are on a d20. Add or subtract the modifier to the appropriate ability score and roll. If the roll is equal to or lower than the modified ability score, then the character is successful. If the roll is higher than the modified ability score, then the character failed. A natural 20 always fails.

· Alertness: (1 slot, WIS-1, WSG)
· All-around sight: (1 slot, N/A, OA)
· Animal Handling: (1 slot, WIS-1, WSG)
· Animal Lore (1 slot, INT, WSG)
· Animal Noise (1 slot, DSG)
· Animal Training: (1 slot, WIS, DSG)
· Appraising: (1 slot, INT, PHB)
· Armorer: (2 slots, INT-2, DSG)
· Blacksmithing: (1 slot, STR, DSG)
· Blind fighting: (1 slot, N/A, WGS)
· Bowyer/Fletcher: (1 slot, DEX-1, DSG)
· Climb Walls (1 slot, same as a Thief –3 levels)
· Contortion: (2 slots, DEX-2) A character who has studied contortion have achieved the ultimate flexibility. They can fit their bodies into spaces as small as four cubic feet or through holes as tiny as 12 ” in diameter. This maneuver can also be used to slip out of bonds or shackles with a DEX-2 chance of success. One turn of concentration is required before attempting a feat (1d10 rounds for slipping bonds), and one turn of rest is required afterward (1 round for slipping bonds). Only one attempt to escape the bonds may be made, failure would indicate the bonds are too tight. Except when escaping bonds, the contortion skill cannot be used when wearing any sort of armor, including normal leather, due to the great flexibility required for its function. Traps which bind the character in place, like manacles, can be slipped off using the skill. It also allows the player to escape opponents in combat when trapped or held, though the person they are escaping from gets a normal attack roll against the escaping character.
· Detect Noise (1 slot, same as a Thief –3 levels)
· Direction Sense: (1 slot, WIS+1, WSG)
· Disguise (1 slot, CHA-1, PHB)
· Endurance: (2 slots, N/A, WSG)
· Find/Remove Traps (1 slot, same as a Thief –3 levels)
· Foraging: (1 slot, INT-2, WSG)
· Forgery (1 slot, DEX-1, PHB)
· Gem Cutter (1 slot, Dex-2, DSG)
· Healing: (2 slots, WIS+2, WSG)
· Herbalism: (2 slots, INT-2, PHB)
· Hide in Shadows (1 slot, same as a Thief –3 levels)
· Jumping: (1 slot, STR, PHB)
· Light Step: (1 slot, DEX-2) The character possessing this ability is able to walk with a feather-light step. When moving at one-half his normal movement rate, the character is able to walk with the effect of a pass without trace spell.
· Martial Arts Style: (1 or more slots per style, OA)
· Missile Deflection: (2 slots, DEX-2, OA)
· Mountaineering: (1 slot, N/A, WSG)
· Move Silently (1 slot, same as a Thief –3 levels)
· Open Locks (1 slot, same as a Thief –3 levels)
· Plant Lore: (1 slot, INT, WSG)
· Pick Pockets (1 slot, same as a Thief –3 levels)
· Prone Fighting & Instant Stand: (1 slot, N/A, OA)
· Read Languages (1 slot, same as a Thief –3 levels)
· Reading Lips (1 slot, INT-2, PHB)
· Riding Airborne (2 slots, WIS-2, WSG)
· Riding Dragon (2 slots, DEX, DLA)
· Riding Land-based (1 slot, WIS+3, WSG)
· Running: (2 slots, CON, WSG)
· Sound Imitation: (1 slot, WIS, OA)
· Speed: (2 slots, N/A, OA)
· Survival, Cold: (1 slot, N/A, WSG)
· Survival, Desert: (2 slots, N/A, WSG)
· Survival, Heat: (1 slot, N/A, WSG)
· Tightrope Walking (1 Slot, DEX, PHB)
· Tracking: (1 slot, N/A, WSG)
· Tumbling (1 slots, DEX, PHB)
· Weaponsmithing: (3 slots, INT-3, PHB)

Key:
WSG – Wilderness Survival Guide
DLA – Dragonlance Adventures
DSG – Dungeoneer’s Survival Guide
OA – Oriental Adventures
PHB – 2E Player’s Handbook

Until someone comes up with a better system, we'll stick this this one.

[supernaught]

I think "skill-bundles" similar to LA would work nicely....hell it wouldn't take much to convert them ;D