Which AD&D books are you using ?

[Drexlorn]

Hello,

I'm going to DM for the first time with the 1st ed system and I have access to all the hardcovers except Deities & Demigods.

Do you have any suggestion for which books I shoud limit myself ?

Except the PHB, DMG and the 3 manuals of monsters, do you suggest another book ?

What do you use yourself ?

Thank you!

[Scott]

You've already listed all of the essentials. I like the system with and without Unearthed Arcana. Since you are new to DMing, and since so much of the 1E material wasn't written with UA in mind, I would suggest starting without it, and then adding piece by piece what you like when you get comfortable.
Scott

[Falconer]

The PH, DMG, and MM1 are all you really need. I photocopied the beginning pages of DDG so I don't have to lug the whole thing to my games, but those pages can be pretty essential, IMO, at least to read through once to understand souls/spirits and how deities grant spells; as well as the extended ability scores tables. It's also not a bad idea to use DDG gods, as it will provide a pantheon that you and your players are familiar with. You can choose to use just one, as, say, the Norse or Babylonian; or you can have them all exist more-or-less in your universe and allow players to choose any of them (but that tends to make a rather hodge-podge feel).

I don't bring FF or MM2 to my games, either, unless I know I'm going to be using a monster or monsters from them--but even then, I generally photocopy the pages I need rather than bring the whole thing. The MM1 mostly covers it. Since I'm running G-D-Q right now, and those were written very early on, I won't need any FF or MM2 monsters.

Scotty already gave some sound advice about UA. Leave it aside for now and once you have a real handle on the game, incorporate bits as you see fit. Of course, if you are using a post-UA module such as T1-4 or WG6, the *occasional* artifact or spell from UA will come into play, so you'll want to have it handy in that case. The one thing from UA that I definitely would look at as a beginning DM is the simplified Weaponless Combat System I on p. 106 of UA. The section on Pole Arms pp. 123-8 can help answer any questions you might have on pole arms. If you are starting an Illusionist character you'll want the section ACQUISITION OF ILLUSIONIST SPELLS on p. 80, but you can just roll a d4 rather than d6 so you only get PH spells, no UA-specific spells (compare DMG, p. 39). So other than that you can ignore UA for now. ;-)

If you aren't creating a homebrew world from scratch or have otherwise chosen a campaign setting, the World of Greyhawk fits seamlessly with AD&D 1e. Plus, most 1e modules are set there, so they assume some basic facts of the WoG (T1-4 in particular). Here, you will find a good pantheon of gods, which it's good to use especially if you think using a real-world pantheon is weird (I actually use some gods from WoG AND some gods from DDG). There's a great section on weather; there's info on travel in all sorts of terrains; there is a chart of "Portentous Runes & Glyphs" which are useful in all kinds of situations (the 1980 WoG Folio does this better than the 1983 WoG Boxed Set, but otherwise the boxed set has a lot more bang for your buck); info on moons and a calendar, which is quite handy to have; and of course a ton of adventuring ideas. I can not recommend it highly enough.

So, in short, what do I use myself?

PH, DMG, MM1, WoG; UA is on-hand but rarely referenced; a select few pages photocopied from DDG, FF (almost nothing), and MM2. I also bring a Basic Game Book (Holmes edition) to port over an occasional quick-and-easy rule. Finally, I bring An Introduction to Elvish, which remains the best Tolkien language reference book available (far better than The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-earth), principally for help in naming characters. Regards.

[Drexlorn]

Thank you very much for the advices Falconer.

About the setting, I'm having an hard time.

I don't want to create an homebrew because I've done that for 12 years in my last campaign (finished) and want to try modules and an already made setting.

One thing for sure is that I'll use the 1st ed core rules.

I'll do as you suggest both, starrting small with the 3 basics books and see as I'm more familiar.

The problem I have is this one :

My cousin recently made a big deal for a bunch of Forgotten Realms products, I mean a big lot. My cousin is not a DM nor he want to. He mainly bought theses products for me to DM.

The problem ?

First, I've begun to read the setting and a little of Waterdeep.
I can't really explain all in details but I find it boring. Perhaps it's because the authors put emphasis on boring stuff or perhaps the style doesn't appeal to me at all. Don't really know. I know I don't want to continue the reading.

Second, (and I may have a good excuse here), the FR products were implemented for 2E, which is a bad start if I use 1E.

The dilemn I'm having here is, should I use the FR products anyway for we will not feel like having wasted those products or should I buy WoG and play the classic Gygax modules made for 1E ?

It's hard to decide because of so much already available products, and nothing of the Gygax era.

Can you help me ?

[Falconer]

Drexlorn said:

The dilemn I'm having here is, should I use the FR products anyway for we will not feel like having wasted those products or should I buy WoG and play the classic Gygax modules made for 1E ?

Can you help me ? :'(

Yes, I can help you. Your cousin wasted his money, but the waste of time could be far worse. ;-)

Seriously, it's possible you can get some use out of the FR products. What do you have? Please list them for us. There's good and bad, as always, but in the case of FR you really do have to be careful. As far as being 2e, the conversion won't be a huge problem, the problem is that in the 2e era most modules were written very "linearly"--that is to say, written like storybooks with the plot all figured out. This is no fun for the players. Gygax's modules are aids providing interesting locations for adventure in which the outcome can literally be any of thousands of possibilities, depending on the choices of the players just as much as the DM.

So, do yourself and your players a favor and run B2 The Keep on the Borderlands, T1-4 The Temple of Elemental Evil, G1-2-3 Against the Giants, etc. first. This will provide you with a guaranteed fun game and teach you how to DM and your players how to play. After this, you and your cousin can re-evaluate whether it's worth it to try and get some good play out of the usually-boring (in style AND substance) FR stuff. Either you'll be ready for a change and it will work out well, or everyone will hate it and beg to go back to Gygax. Just tell your players you want to run some all-time classics to get a feel for the game and you'll give FR a try later.

That's the best I can say. Regards.

[Falconer]

If you have the FR "Old Gray Box", that will probably give you the best feel for FR. As with any world (but particularly in a world with so many games and novels every year by so many different authors), it becomes hard to get a feel for the world once it has too much detail. The original boxed set will give you a feel for it.

I still heartily recommend WoG, but I'm trying to help you in case you decide to go FR. I can also help you with DL. ;-) Regards.

[Drexlorn]

Falconer said:

Seriously, it's possible you can get some use out of the FR products. What do you have? Please list them for us.

I have so much. Also, he got non FR products with the deal but still 2E era products.

Here's a quick and non complete list (I'm not home and go with my memory) :

The FR boxed sets first
FR campaign setting
City of splendors
Ruins of Undermoutain
Ruins of Undermoutain II
Menzoberranzan
Lands of Intrigue
Kara-Tur (I think it's 1E related)
Netheril: Empire of Magic
The Horde
The ruins of Myth Drannor
Elminster's ecologies
Ruins of Zhentil keep

FR supplements
About 20-25 of them.

FR modules
About 20 of them.

The non-FR generic boxed sets
Night below
Rod of seven parts
Return to the tomb of horrors
Dragon Mountain

Non-FR generic modules or supplements
Axe of the dwarvish lord
Return to White plume mountain
TSR anniversary edition of Against the giants (the 3 together)
...A lot of complete books of you know what, other 2E supplements and the like...

Falconer said:

So, do yourself and your players a favor and run B2 The Keep on the Borderlands, T1-4 The Temple of Elemental Evil, G1-2-3 Against the Giants, etc. first.

I have B2 which I received with a won auction of the Moldvay/Cook books. Is is not intented to play with the Basic rules ? Easily adaptable ?

I can't run T1-4 because one of my 2 players Dm'ed this one and the other player was, well, the other with me playing it.

Finally, you can see that I hold a 2E DM's paradise of products but nothing of the 1E era of Gygax. The only of those being all the hardcover 1E books except Deities & Demigods.

[Falconer]

Drexlorn said:

I have B2 which I received with a won auction of the Moldvay/Cook books. Is is not intented to play with the Basic rules ? Easily adaptable ?

Very easily adaptable. I particularly recommend one of the first two prints of B2 (with the Wizard logo in the lower left hand corner of the cover rather than the TSR Face logo). The earlier prints are as written by Gygax, for the Holmes set, and you don't really have to convert anything at all. The later prints were altered for the Moldvay revision.

Drexlorn said:

FR campaign setting

1st Edition? 2nd Edition? 2.5 Edition? The 1st Edition is better. The later ones are bloated. But, still, in either case you might base your campaign in Shadowdale, a small town presented in these boxes. Small towns are definitely a good choice for a new campaign, IMO. And in that case you may as well use the following as your main dungeon to start with:

Drexlorn said:

The Ruins of Myth Drannor

I read a novel once (Spellfire by Ed Greenwood) about heroes from Shadowdale adventuring in Myth Drannor. Crappy novel, but sounded like it might be fun gameplay. You'd have to ask for a second opinion on this product somewhere that specializes in it, though.

Drexlorn said:

Night Below

I've heard some good things about it. Of all your collection so far, this is the one I'd be least biased against and most curious about.

Drexlorn said:

Return to White Plume Mountain
TSR anniversary edition of Against the Giants (the 3 together)

All rewrites, both not-so-great from what I've seen and heard. Seek out the originals.

Drexlorn said:

Return to the Tomb of Horrors

I've heard some okay things about this rewrite, but the best is that the original module is also included in this box, which is good.

All-in-all, I'm really not excited about any of the FR stuff. Remember that all of Gygax's modules and manuals were mass-produced in far larger quantities than any of this 2e stuff, so many of them are still pretty cheap and easy to collect. They're small books but you can really get a lot out of them. B2 has, what, 20 pages of adventure material, max; but we played its environs for over eight months!

Still, I can't make the decision to spend your money for you. Good luck in making up your mind! Regards.

[Drexlorn]

Ok, thanks a lot for your advice Falconer.

If I wanted to find WoG and the gygax greyhawk module, where do you suggest me to search ?

I want real books, no pdf.

What are the modules I could fit together ? I saw there was a logic with the G series, D series... Does it fit really well together ?

[Scott]

The G, D, Q series was made to go together, and it is hands down the best adventure series. The events in the GD series occur before T1-4, but running T1-4, then the slavers series, then the GDQ series has become a popular option, but I don't think the Slavers series works as a follow up to T1-4.
I'd say T1-4 is a good place to start, then run a few smaller scale adventures like White Plume Mountain, The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, and The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. After that your party should be ready to start the G series.
Scott

[Drexlorn]

Scott said:

The G, D, Q series was made to go together, and it is hands down the best adventure series. The events in the GD series occur before T1-4, but running T1-4, then the slavers series, then the GDQ series has become a popular option, but I don't think the Slavers series works as a follow up to T1-4.
I'd say T1-4 is a good place to start, then run a few smaller scale adventures like White Plume Mountain, The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, and The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. After that your party should be ready to start the G series.
Scott

Ok but since I absolutly can't run T1-4, (see the above explanation), I'm in big trouble for a good start.

I will have 2 players and perhaps some people they will hire.
I think the party will be around 4 or 5, more chance for 4.

What are the level requirement and number of players for all the remaining modules ?

B2 : 6 to 9 players of level 1-3
White Plume Mountain :
The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth :
The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun :
G1 :
G2 :
G3 :
D1 :
D2 :
D3 :
Q1 : 9 players of 10-14 level

How do you adjust the levels required when you have fewer players than needed ?

How can you find 9 players !

[Scott]

What are the level requirement and number of players for all the remaining modules ?

B2 : 6 to 9 players of level 1-3
White Plume Mountain : 5 - 10
The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth : 6 - 10
The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun : 5 - 10
G1 : 8 - 12
G2 : The same party
G3 : that starts in
D1 : G1
D2 : should go through
D3 : this whole series
Q1 : 9 players of 10-14 level

How do you adjust the levels required when you have fewer players than needed ? We use NPCs or henchmen

How can you find 9 players ! Henchmen! My players all start looking for henchmen around the time they reach 4th level. Some of them have their own small personal armies. Usually when I DM it is for 2 players, and each one brings 2 - 3 henchmen along.

Scott

[Falconer]

Drexlorn said:

If I wanted to find WoG and the gygax greyhawk module, where do you suggest me to search ?

eBay is almost literally the only place to get out of print stuff for reasonable prices.

Drexlorn said:

What are the modules I could fit together ? I saw there was a logic with the G series, D series... Does it fit really well together ?

This the campaign I am running right now:

B2 The Keep on the Borderlands
T1 The Village of Hommlet
T1-4 The Temple of Elemental Evil
G1-2-3 Against the Giants
D1-2 Descent Into the Depths of the Earth
D3 Vault of the Drow
Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits

The party is in G2 right now.

I thought I was going to put S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and WG4 The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun in between T1-4 and G1-2-3, but the party was easily powerful enough after T1-4 to tackle G1-2-3, in my case. And it works out great either way, because thematically all the modules listed tie in really well.

I actually did get to play in S2 White Plume Mountain, DM'd by one of my players after T1-4 was completed. I really was not impressed by the level of difficulty of either the puzzles or the combat encounters, at least when played by a group of adults. And, despite Foster's well-thought-out points about it, the completely non-sensical nature of the dungeon makes it all rather too cheesy for my tastes. Still, since it only took two sessions to complete, it might be worth it to run just for the memories and the experience of having run it.

Too bad you can't do the ToEE. There's really nothing like it, not till Castle Zagyg comes out. You need a good, long-term dungeon crawl to fill the characters' early lives, I figure, before branching out into a lot of little new adventures. Oh well. Go to my website (link below), and scroll down to "Miscellaneous". Many of those are for lower levels. Not by Gygax, but many of them good.

I still highly recommend starting with B2. Regards.

[Falconer]

As for getting 9 players, don't convince yourself that it isn't possible. It is. I started my campaign with 3 players, one of whom only showed up a quarter of the time (still does, come to think of it), and another of whom moved away really soon after. We kept recruiting friends, though--only people that we actually enjoy hanging out with.

That's one secret. D&D meetings are social events, like parties. Form a group that people like to be a part of. Keep D&D cool. Don't be embarrassed about it. Original D&D is actually a lot of fun, right? Engages the brain; there's the excitement of rolling the dice; endless comedy; and a dash of improvisational acting (don't be afraid of it, but do keep it in perspective). A great activity for an evening. Beats beer and a movie any day.

The second secret is to play same time, same place, every week, almost without fail. This is important for several reasons. For one thing, people always know to set that day aside for gaming, and can always plan ahead for it, because they know for certain when it's going to be. Interestingly, the more often you play, the more loath the players will be to miss any session. By playing more, you add to the sense of the campaign world as an imaginary world actually in progress, with a past, present, and future. DMG pp. 37-8 were really inspirational to me in this regard. Finally, if you meet irregularly, it will always seem to take forever to complete any dungeon, which makes it uninteresting.

The third secret is to always serve food at the game. Rotate whose responsibility it is to feed the group. It depends on the age and sensibility of the group, but it doesn't need to be too fancy, and while variety is good it's not always necessary. My group subsides on frozen pizza and Mountain Dew. Food adds to the sense of community, ritual, and well-being.

The fourth secret is to be a really well-rested DM, and to come to the game above all with a lot of energy and a few ideas. B2 really doesn't require a lot of preparation, but it's so free-form that on one hand you want to give your players free rein to drive the plot in whatever direction they choose, and on the other hand you want to have a bunch of interesting ideas and interesting NPCs that you can throw in at any time to put a new twist on things. The DM directs no more and no less than half of the game. The other half is the players. But as you grow in players, you will need more and more energy to keep the game under control, flowing, and fun.

The fifth secret is to use AD&D 1st Edition by Gary Gygax. ;-) Regards.

[Drexlorn]

Falconer said:

eBay is almost literally the only place to get out of print stuff for reasonable prices.


This the campaign I am running right now:

B2 The Keep on the Borderlands
T1 The Village of Hommlet
T1-4 The Temple of Elemental Evil
G1-2-3 Against the Giants
D1-2 Descent Into the Depths of the Earth
D3 Vault of the Drow
Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits

The party is in G2 right now.

I thought I was going to put S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth and WG4 The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun in between T1-4 and G1-2-3, but the party was easily powerful enough after T1-4 to tackle G1-2-3, in my case. And it works out great either way, because thematically all the modules listed tie in really well.

I actually did get to play in S2 White Plume Mountain, DM'd by one of my players after T1-4 was completed. I really was not impressed by the level of difficulty of either the puzzles or the combat encounters, at least when played by a group of adults. And, despite Foster's well-thought-out points about it, the completely non-sensical nature of the dungeon makes it all rather too cheesy for my tastes. Still, since it only took two sessions to complete, it might be worth it to run just for the memories and the experience of having run it.

Too bad you can't do the ToEE. There's really nothing like it, not till Castle Zagyg comes out. You need a good, long-term dungeon crawl to fill the characters' early lives, I figure, before branching out into a lot of little new adventures. Oh well. Go to my website (link below), and scroll down to "Miscellaneous". Many of those are for lower levels. Not by Gygax, but many of them good.

I still highly recommend starting with B2. Regards.

Since I must remove the T1 and T1-4, here what I got for a quick shot :

B2 The Keep on the Borderlands
G1-2-3 Against the Giants
D1-2 Descent Into the Depths of the Earth
D3 Vault of the Drow
Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits

I'll have to fill the gap after B2...

I'll check another thread where the long list is written and choose from there.

Thanks for all the good advice !

[Scott]

After B2, you could try Isle of Dread, follow that with the Slavers series maybe. I still haven't had time to put together a serious list. Hopefully tomorrow I can put a few campaign ideas together.
Scott

[GT]

After Q1, you could always run the characters through S1 for a truly epic ending! ^__^

[Scott]

Truly epic, or campaign ending. One of the two.
Scott

[supernaught]

PH,DMG,MM,FF,UA,MM2,D&DG....Dragon articles.