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Post by tzelios on Jun 7, 2005 5:35:28 GMT -5
If you were employed by the IP owner, and granted accordingly creative control over the setting, what would you do to better the published setting?
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 7, 2005 9:06:48 GMT -5
Fire everybody!  I would phase out everything written for Greyhawk and redo it from scratch to complete it as it should of been. Major adventure sites would be everywhere. Detailed city maps with zero fluff. No characters and no history will be the rule. If it doesn't scream "generic utility that I can use in my game" then its not right. Thats Greyhawk! Thats the way it should of been. Thats... Wait, I thought I quit D&D discussion? Shuffles quietly sideways offstage. |
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Post by Scott on Jun 7, 2005 17:13:24 GMT -5
Actually Gene, I thought you just swore off game discussion on your site.
As for Greyhawk, it's sorely lacking in recent quality adventures. That's what I would go for.
Scott
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Post by tzelios on Jun 9, 2005 5:59:38 GMT -5
Fire everybody! Gene man, that is why certain people in other Greyhawk forums are not fond of you. But your response rocks, you are genuine and honestly I like that, even though I cannot quite agree. |
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Post by tzelios on Jun 9, 2005 7:25:24 GMT -5
The method I follow is closely related to oriental martial arts practices: Use your opponent's momentum to your benefit. Try to contemplate that together with the text that follows. Keep in mind that your opponent is the IP owner (past or present).
It is true that, after the Gygaxian anagrams, certain designers of the IP owner have made through the years links between real world authors and characters of the setting. I have studied these links to some extent (grodog's investigations were valuable to that end, so I prop grodog), I can also provide references if you are interested!!! For example, it is fact that Rose Estes the real world Greyhawk author is the Estarius Roses sage of Greyhawk. These designers have also linked themselves to certain Greyhawk sages, e.g., Roger Moore is Rogar of Mooria.
So just as Estarius Roses is a poor studier of Greyhawk (see LGJ #4), all published material on the setting can be evaluated accordingly (a good use of opponetnt's momentum). Therefore, the published setting is no more than the opinions of the Greyhawk sages linked to the real authors. Provided that there is strong argumentation, parts of the published setting can be thrown to the waste basket, just as Iquander threw to the waste basket Estarius Roses.
The present IP owner continued the setting in an arbitrary way, since the views of the creator Gygax and other important first generation designers were not taken into account. From Paul Stormberg's tribute to the recently deceased David C. Sutherland III there exists text: "In a particularly shameful moment for the roleplaying games industry, the company did not even give Dave so much as a single phone call" (despite his loyalty to TSR). Since, the present IP owner continued the setting in an arbitrary way, such critiques on the present setting are meaningful and crucial.
But do not fool yourself. To throw to the waste basket parts of the published setting (using opponent's momentum plus reason) is not an easy task. General methodological guidelines would be, once you prove that parts of the setting is crap, to explain why these sages wrote crap. And this is a major plot. We can chat more about that if your are interested.
Tres esoteric!
Regards,
tzelios
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Post by tzelios on Jun 9, 2005 7:48:14 GMT -5
Why is it true, that while the world (Greyhawk) is being destroyed by Tharizdun, some characters (NPCs of present IP owner) live a Greyhawk reality that is far from ruins? Who provided that and why? I do not accept the argument of the alternate Oerths, this argument holds for each different home campaign of the fans, but not for the one and only Greyhawk that Joseph Elric Smith refers to.
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 9, 2005 8:11:42 GMT -5
Gary's notion about the setting is do what you want with it and the official line leaves no room for that kind of variance. Gary once told me that there were infinite amounts of Iuzs representing each alternate prime material plane. Tell that to some GH fans and they turn into drooling psychopaths! |
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Post by tzelios on Jun 9, 2005 8:21:11 GMT -5
Gene man,
Your write-up on Trowbane is amazingly nice, it really fills a huge gap of the published Greyhawk deities so far.
A little bit bothers me what happened to St. Cuthbert during the Greyahwk Wars (if Trowbane is other than St. Cuhtbert, then there is no mention of St. Cuthbert in the novels).
tz
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 9, 2005 8:41:04 GMT -5
Fire everybody! Gene man, that is why certain people in other Greyhawk forums are not fond of you. But your response rocks, you are genuine and honestly I like that, even though I cannot quite agree. Well, I don't really buy any of their products anymore so I've got no say. To tell you the truth I'm not into the official Greyhawk anymore. I've had many interactions regarding a return to yore for the setting but it ain't happening. There are new fans laying all over the road willing to stick their necks out on the chopping block for "History Loving Greyhawk". I've squashed so many of them with my "take no prisoners" bid for a return and its just turned out to be a virtual massacre on a daily basis. I decided to focus on things that I can control and everyday it seems that I'm learning that setting out on my own is the way to go about it. Do my own world with my own adventures and stop worrying about things that are out of my hands. (i.e. stop campaigning to conserve already extinct beasties, etc.) |
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Post by geneweigel on Jun 9, 2005 9:02:53 GMT -5
Trowbane* is totally Gary's idea. All that I did, after he described him in a few sentences, was play the music in the theme of his other gods and shot the write up his way (At that time, I was involved in a now defunct Gord project with him). He then suggested modifications which I then integrated and then he put his stamp on it to slap on my now defunct "true Greyhawk" webpage. Creatures called "Trow" didn't make it into D&D. I believe Gary said they should of made it into the Monster Manual II but got lost in the shuffle. Sort of drow/duergar-ish but more evil was all he would add. Probably were going to get introduced in a "deeper than mind flayers" concept module. Most likely taking the space reserved exclusively for aboleth in the linear and narrow scoped Dungeoneer's Survival Guide's "Underdark" which became the "Dry & Drier" (D&D 2e) standard. |
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Post by Axeguest on Jun 9, 2005 19:37:35 GMT -5
The train wrecked...there were no survivors. After hearing the grimm future, Gene steps out of the train into a vacant dusty train station; the fortune teller turns his face to him...it is the skeletal face of death (or at least Peter Cushing wearing a mask). Seriously, Gene is correct about this. You would probably have to replace everyone. But then a product produced by someone with taste wouldn't sell to the market as it exists. The present D20ers eat the fluff up.
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