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Post by geneweigel on Mar 27, 2022 14:06:25 GMT -5
Also had a good conversation with Paul Stormberg about GREYHAWK origins and the GREYHAWK multiverse. So the writing world and the pre-writing world are separate from the world map which added players. So it's something like (don't quote me) 1) pre-writing "map that he had" 2) writing a story over that map 3) gaming world with players (King Robert, etc) map 4) Arneson pencilled into world to the NW 5) Darlene Then the addition of the Oerth variants which may or may not be involved (Sagar, DJ, etc) Where Learth fits in....
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Post by GRWelsh on Mar 27, 2022 18:26:18 GMT -5
I won the Braunstein game! But the real thrill was listening to Dave Wesely tell his stories about the original Braunsteins, Dave Arneson, Dave Megarry and Gary Gygax. What is really cool about Dave Wesely is how down to earth and non-greedy he is. When he found out people were selling PDFs of his original Braunstein scenario he negotiated a very non-greedy licensing agreement. Also, when the Arneson versus Gygax controversy came up, he dismissed it with the comment that it was stupid and that Dave and Gary had buried the hatchet and were cool with each other before they died. I loved that, because it was the conclusion I came to as well, the more I looked into it. Reviving that feud does no one any good... Why not focus on what they and others contributed to role-playing in a positive way? That was the gist of Wesely's sentiment, and I completely agree.
In regards to the game itself, this one was called 'Banania' and was the fourth scenario in the series of the gaming template they would later refer to as 'a Braunstein' although each could vary in time or place but generally was a historical scenario. Banania was a fictional small republic in Latin America set in the 1950's, and each of the players -- I think we had 12 -- took the role of someone in Banania. Each turn we would meet with each other and role play using the separate handouts Dave Wesely gave each of us at the beginning. It reminded me a lot of DIPLOMACY and I made that remark to Dave, and he said yes it was a similar concept but more open ended because in DIPLOMACY you were an abstraction/country moreso than a character and limited to the mechanics of that game (attack/support/don't support/oppose) whereas the Braunsteins require a referee to adjudicate any oddball thing players may attempt to do. The games are similar in that you can say whatever you want to other players, but what you write down on the turn sheet is what counts. It's so weird to think that Arneson initially thought of Blackmoor as 'a Braunstein' but he did. According to Dave Wesely, there was a game in the 60's where you could play an individual character, a GI, in combat scenarios.* He wanted to use that idea for more than just soldiers and that is when he came up with his scenario of Braunstein, where villagers were caught in a conflict and had to interact with each other and role play with Wesely as the referee. He thought the initial scenario was a total failure since it became totally chaotic as players attempted to do things he never dreamed they'd do -- but the players enthusiastically told him they loved it and asked him when they were going to play another Braunstein. So he developed variations, which they referred to as Braunsteins, and soon Arneson was developing his own Braunsteins as well. They began alternating as the referee, and when Wesely had to leave again Arneson asked if it was okay if he ran Braunsteins while Wesely was away. Wesely said sure, go ahead. In Wesely's absence, Arneson began incorporating fantasy elements into his medieval Braunstein that he named Blackmoor. The concept of carrying over the same characters from previous play sessions started with Duane Jenkins who ran a Wild West Braunstein that he called 'Brownstone' and the concept of individual characters improving came from FIGHT IN THE SKIES with Mike Carr when fighter pilots would gain better stats after surviving and having success in a scenario (i.e. they retained experience from previous scenarios played). Wesely suggested incorporating this improvement mechanic for use in the 'medieval fantasy Braunstein' of Blackmoor.
*I should have asked what game Wesely was referring to here, so I'll have to follow up with him on that. If there was a game in the 1960's where you could play an individual GI and there were game mechanics for it, that is an important conceptual step in the development of RPGs. I immediately free form associated this with 'GI Joe with Kung Fu grip'!
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foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
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Post by foster1941 on Mar 27, 2022 18:46:57 GMT -5
Loving all these stories - glad you guys were finally able to make it there and are having such a good time. I’m still bummed that fate conspired to keep me from being able attend and meet up with you both in 2020, as that was pretty much a one time combination of circumstances that year that led to me being able to attend that year that isn’t likely to occur again. Keep the stories coming!
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 27, 2022 18:50:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I see it as Gary was completely christian and forgiving with Dave on the other hand he was not with Roger Raupp who stole his family treasures. So there is much to be said about that. I think the whole Arneson thing is getting old. Lorraine "money thug" Williams is not Dave "good game" Arneson but I think it's their only means to express their Forgotten Realms thuggery by waving "Arneson is a martyr" constantly. Greenwood entered into this era with a default disapproval from the same pretensions that he nurtured so the wingnuts need Dave "martyr" Arneson to keep their Lorraine bubbles stabilized.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 27, 2022 19:32:07 GMT -5
I also watched Allen Hammock referee Boot Hill but it was packed and hard to hear and I couldn't get to Allen. Then he disappeared.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 27, 2022 19:38:13 GMT -5
I also became friendly with Kevin Maurice another back in the day guy. Looks like Gandalf. I was helping him pack up the sandbox with Terry Kuntz this morning. Now that's surreal.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 27, 2022 19:46:51 GMT -5
I kept seeing Ward who is wheelchair bound so I mostly saw him on the ground floor. He kept making eye contact but I kept avoiding. I've never had a good encounter with him so I don't want to push it. I saw lots of faces that I know but hell if I could put it together. A lot of D20 era faces posted from forum pics all mushed together. I did not see any actors but I saw the wedding people for a second. I'm still not sure if who I walked past was Like Gygax. I saw Skip Williams DMing pointed out by Terry Kuntz.
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Post by geneweigel on Mar 27, 2022 21:04:24 GMT -5
I'm beginning to think Mornard was once goodly like other "hobbit-kind". I shall call him: Grollum...
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Post by Zenopus on Mar 30, 2022 15:58:18 GMT -5
Zach “Zenopus” Howard was kind enough to invite me into his Holmes Basic D&D game “Expedition to Skull Stack Crater” after noticing my registration mishap! Good group of players in an old school style scenario — great fun! Thanks again, Zach! I'm so glad you were able to make it! Fun session. First time running that adventure at a con, which I plan to make available in some form.
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Post by Zenopus on Mar 30, 2022 16:59:53 GMT -5
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Post by GRWelsh on Apr 1, 2022 16:20:59 GMT -5
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Post by geneweigel on Apr 1, 2022 17:24:28 GMT -5
In the 2nd pic, I look like my uncle Mickey. Gah!!!
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Post by yesmar on Apr 1, 2022 23:28:14 GMT -5
Those are some great pics for sure, especially that last one. I haven’t been to Gary Con for a long time, so it is nice to see some pictures of the recent activities. Maybe I’ll get back there eventually. It would be nice.
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Post by geneweigel on Apr 2, 2022 10:57:40 GMT -5
My wife and friends were going through my phone last night looking at pics. And they're looking at all the pics on my phone of the Tractics game and the hotel room and then they got to the photo of someone blocking the view in front of me. I was like oh that is just Mike Mornard's ass, I'm saving it for the cover of my biography...
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Post by GRWelsh on Apr 3, 2022 15:01:32 GMT -5
I meant to post more details about the Con, as well as more pics, but on Wednesday I came down with something and I've been down and out since then. It is like a really bad cold or flu, but I'm not sure if it is Covid. I'm getting the lab test tomorrow just to satisfy my curiosity. Since this was my first time on a plane in two years I was actually expecting to catch a cold or flu... I'm just glad I didn't catch it on the way out instead of the way back... Of course, it's always possible I got this at the gym the day after I got back.
I did get to stop in at Lake Geneva Games, the local hobby shop, and it seemed like a nice place. It had a "secret door" behind a bookshelf and several large tables to game at. The guy that worked there was showing me around and told me of a game he played in with EGG and James Ward, and he also told me Ernie has played there quite a bit. This game shop didn't seem to be on good terms with the Dungeon Hobby Shop, but I wasn't sure why and didn't get the details other than an underlying current of negativity. Perhaps it was the online fiasco.
Speaking from personal experience, the Dungeon Hobby Shop guys were all very nice, as far as I could tell. Ernie was friendly and energetic. Jeff Leason was very nice and showed me around downstairs. Justin showed me around upstairs, where the offices of EGG, Tim Kask, Brian Blume and the art department had been. Very cool to stand exactly where EGG's office was 1976-79, where he worked on OD&D Supplements, AD&D material and the World of Greyhawk Folio.
I enjoyed the Seven Oaks Bed & Breakfast I stayed out but it was too cold and rainy to use the outside grill. I thought the cabin had a stove but it only had a microwave, and that was the only negative. The complimentary breakfast they gave me fed me most of the day every day (think yogurt, apple juice, orange juice, bananas, apples, peaches, cereal, milk, cheese, crackers, sausage and egg biscuits, quiche, baked goods from the Lake Geneva Pie Company, etc.). At next year's Gary Con (March 23-26) I'd prefer to stay at the Grand Geneva and just Uber instead of having the rental car (mostly a waste) but with a cursory check the Grand Geneva appears to already be booked up next year!
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Post by geneweigel on Apr 3, 2022 15:44:29 GMT -5
Your setup sounded good on paper.
The Cove was nice. It had a gas fireplace where I was roasting my butt after Saturdays game.
Renting the car was lame going all the way out to the event parking and waiting for the trolley. Although I went to the supermarket a Piggly Wiggly but underneath it was an older market called "Stinebrink's" and it looked straight out of the 70s. I hadn't seen a supermarket like that since I was a kid. Getting the main hotel would be ideal because you could hijack characters back to your room for all night play and have ideal parking for galavanting.
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Post by GRWelsh on Apr 4, 2022 7:16:43 GMT -5
I went to the Stinebrink's Piggly Wiggly and felt right at home there. I even got a "Pig Card"! I got fresh salad stuff, breaded chicken tenders and buns from the bakery and that along with breakfast from Seven Oaks fed me for the entire trip.
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Post by Zenopus on Apr 7, 2022 22:21:36 GMT -5
At next year's Gary Con (March 23-26) I'd prefer to stay at the Grand Geneva and just Uber instead of having the rental car (mostly a waste) but with a cursory check the Grand Geneva appears to already be booked up next year! The block of rooms for next year's Gary Con won't be opened up until sometime in the summer. Looking back, I reserved this year's room on September 1st, 2021, when the block opened up. I think that was later than usual, perhaps due to covid, but it may be July or August before it happens this year.
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Post by Zenopus on Apr 7, 2022 22:23:59 GMT -5
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Post by GRWelsh on Apr 12, 2022 6:48:03 GMT -5
The block of rooms for next year's Gary Con won't be opened up until sometime in the summer. Looking back, I reserved this year's room on September 1st, 2021, when the block opened up. I think that was later than usual, perhaps due to covid, but it may be July or August before it happens this year. Thanks for pointing that out, Zach. So, there is still a chance to get a room in the Grand Geneva next year, after all! That's a relief.
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