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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 10, 2020 9:32:52 GMT -5
Some people say that DUNE doesn't really get started until the end of the first book. I disagree. I think the first book is a standalone science fiction classic that did not need sequels and is much better than any of its sequels. The first book has a fully self-contained story and great world building, and digs into myth, religion and philosophy and science fiction ideas about planetary ecology and human alteration. The sequels, in many ways, don't add anything, they just keep rehashing the same ideas that are introduced in the first novel, or maybe the first two novels. I would rate the first novel way above the others, and DUNE MESSIAH as good but not as good, and the others gradually going lower on the scale of quality and new ideas. Ancestral memories and gholas are interesting ideas, but often used only to bring back popular but dead characters so they can be involved in the plot again. Overall, I think that diminishes rather than enhances the whole saga.
I first read DUNE when I heard the David Lynch movie was coming out (in 1984) because I wanted to read it before seeing the movie. Over the years, I've read the sequels, but in retrospect I don't really recommend them past the first three or four. I still love the original novel, though. I'll probably listen to the audiobook again before seeing the new movie version.
Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson are still at it... A new trilogy is coming out starting with THE DUKE OF CALADAN. I've never been anything but cynical about these guys and their prequels and sequels set in the DUNE universe, supposedly based upon notes Frank Herbert made for "DUNE 7" before his death, which as far as I can tell amounted to a brief outline and about one and a half pages of text. I would love it if these guys came out with a title like LEECHES OF DUNE... I might actually buy that!
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 14, 2020 22:13:10 GMT -5
I had the 1984 4 book collection but I had read it priorly in some weird "best of the year" hardcover then finished reading in a beat up hardcover that disappeared then I bought the 4 book with the encyclopedia. The first book in the collection says now a major motion picture. I also have the Dune storybook somewhere. My longest chagrin was not buying the toys when I had the chance, I had bought D&D miniatures instead. Looking back I'd probably repeat and go with the D&D stuff now that I'm 99% toy-free!  My biggest problem with the sequels is that the tone seemed different. I'm not sure if its a sell out or what but something seems odd from the first to the second book. I think visionary things can get lost but something seems like it comes in for a landing after the first book. With all these sketchy behind-the-scenes antics at these publishing companies one could imagine the DUNE name being a market so could be that he had help to speed the plow. |
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 15, 2020 8:29:06 GMT -5
The first Dune novel was the archetypal rise of the hero story extremely well done. In the first book it is cut and dry: the good guys win, the bad buys have been defeated! Hurrah! The tone shift after that is from experimentation and moral ambiguity. DUNE MESSIAH, which I like, is a reversal of the first book, with the hero-king being brought low -- not due to a fatal flaw, but a vision of the future. CHILDREN OF DUNE has a reversal again, with the rise of another hero-king and somewhat of a repeat of the theme of the first book and therefore less impactful... Baron Harkonnen even returns as an ancestral memory to possess Alia like a demon, so it is very much a reprise of the conflict in the first book. GOD EMPEROR OF DUNE is quite philosophical, which some people hate, but I love that aspect of the book... The plot, not so much. The problem with godlike characters who can see the future is that it is difficult to present them with any credible threat. I thought this would have been a good place to end the series since the Atreides story was over, the prescient ability was used to save humanity from destroying itself... mission accomplished. But no, HERETICS OF DUNE resets the universe bringing in new threats and is plot heavy with lots of twists and turns, as is CHAPTERHOUSE: DUNE. None of the reveals are as big as in the earlier books. At that point, it no longer felt like the same saga, but another story set in the same universe many years later. I don't know if publishers pushed Herbert to write more sequels and he sold out, but it felt that way to me after the fourth book. One of my first memories after becoming a "constant sf&f reader" -- who would regularly browse B. Dalton's Bookseller and Waldenbooks every time I went to the mall -- was seeing the display for GOD EMPEROR OF DUNE. That must have been in 1981, before I read any of them. But I remember the marketing. If it has DUNE on it, it will sell! And it was post-STAR WARS, so that was probably another incentive.
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 15, 2020 13:33:48 GMT -5
I wish I had time to read it again but its going to have to wait. In the late 80's, I did have an earnest desire to roleplay a strict Dune scenario but I couldn't wrap my head around it as a full time play. I did have a few DUNE surprise guest appearances here and there in D&D and Gamma World but not a campaign. Remember the dragon-sand worm monster image that I posted a while back? I should dig that out (after all this selling/moving/buying/removing nonsense is over.) and do a blog post on the remnants of that. I made a few worlds for my extremely extended GAMMA WORLD campaign that were inspired by Dune but only in spirit. I'm going to explore some of that at some point but at this rate... |
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 15, 2020 15:43:43 GMT -5
Where did you move to, Gene? How is the move going?
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 15, 2020 20:14:25 GMT -5
The house sale is two weeks away and we're definitely heading to Orlando, Florida. We were close to buying virtually but I bailed so we're going to do more hands on.
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Post by GRWelsh on Sept 16, 2020 7:27:08 GMT -5
Probably wise to hold off to buy in person. Buying virtually probably would have been okay, but there's always that chance...
"If you believe that, I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you."
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Post by geneweigel on Sept 16, 2020 12:17:34 GMT -5
I would dig it being a barbaric animal but they would flip out. Right now need 4 bed with pool and multiple bath. Ah to actually be able to urinate at will again. Talk about needing a still suit!
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