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Post by Scott on Aug 9, 2020 9:21:07 GMT -5
The spell description in the DMG really expand on some of the PH spells. Came across another example reading through G3. There's this note pertaining to the containers in Snure's treasure cave: "These locks cannot be picked by thieves and must be opened by "bending bars" or knock or magic missile spell." My players have never thought to use magic missile this way. I'm not sure I would have allowed it if a player suggested it. Anybody have experience with this? What can/can't magic missile do?
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Post by GRWelsh on Aug 9, 2020 11:14:42 GMT -5
I don't see commentary in the DMG for the magic missile spell. In the PH, the area of effect is "one or more creatures in a 10 square foot area" and in the spell description it states: "If the magic-user has multiple missile capability, he can have them strike a single target creature, or several creatures, as desired." I've always interpreted that to mean the spell only targets creatures. The G3 text might be more compatible with the version of magic missile as it first appears in the Greyhawk Supplement, however, where it is described as "a conjured missile equivalent to a magic arrow" and doesn't specify the target is a creature.
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Post by Scott on Aug 9, 2020 11:58:10 GMT -5
Yes, G3 was definitely in the gray, transition period between OD&D and AD&D, which in retrospect, all of AD&D kinda was.
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 9, 2020 15:59:59 GMT -5
Here is Mentzer which might be unreliable considering it isn't directly asking Gary like the DISPEL CONFUSION Q&As. Its from SPELLING BEE in POLYYHEDRON #4 (FEB 1982). I emphasized a relevant part in BOLD:
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 9, 2020 16:15:53 GMT -5
From EXPEDITION TO BARRIER PEAKS (1980) page 6, two relevant bits that I emphasized in BOLD:
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 9, 2020 16:30:57 GMT -5
In GREYHAWK ADVENTURES: ARTIFACT OF EVIL (1986) Chapter 13, there is an elaborate physicality to magic missile:
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 9, 2020 23:26:41 GMT -5
Here are another two Mentzer-isms talking about Moldvay's (1981) and his (1983) edit of D&D in particular (The 10 minute turn as a fixed duration instead of AD&D "as desired").
From DISPEL CONFUSION-DUNGEONS & DRAGONS in POLYHEDRON #11 (APR 1983):
AND
From DISPEL CONFUSION-DUNGEONS & DRAGONS in POLYHEDRON #17 (MAY 1984):
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 9, 2020 23:48:13 GMT -5
From DRAGON #33 (JAN 1980), Lakofka gets super cheap with Magic Missile variants in the article Smoothing Out Some Snags In the AD&D® Spell Structure but touches on official stances on the spell in discussions with Gary Gygax:
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 9, 2020 23:57:13 GMT -5
From Lakofka's alternate D10/speed factor combat system variant, he mentions Magic Missile briefly, in The "Segment of Action" System Takes AD&D Melee One Step Further in DRAGON MAGAZINE #34 (FEB 1980):
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 10, 2020 0:05:36 GMT -5
Lakofka touches on the feel of Magic Missile in an AD&D combat variant of actions in a round in the article ACTIONS IN THE MELEE ROUND in DRAGON MAGAZINE #43 (NOV 1980):
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 10, 2020 0:15:36 GMT -5
In the article MISSILE FIRE AND THE ARCHER SUBCLASS in DRAGON MAGAZINE #45 (JAN 1981), Lakofka again briefly mentions Magic Missile in the way he plays it (Also briefly mentioning that his variant D10/speed factor system, that I had just mentioned above, turned out crappy from DRAGON #33)
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 10, 2020 0:48:14 GMT -5
From an attempted semi-official article on magic resistance in DRAGON MAGAZINE #79 (NOV 1983) MAGIC RESISTANCE WHAT IT IS, HOW IT WORKS by Kim Mohan, Penny Petticord, Jon Pickens, and Roger Moore, briefly mentions magic resistant beings and self-Magic Missiling is not a work around:
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Post by Scott on Aug 10, 2020 5:39:12 GMT -5
Wow, never realized there was such controversy around the spell.
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Post by GRWelsh on Aug 10, 2020 6:41:37 GMT -5
The way Lakofka tries to screw over the magic missile spell reminds me of Eric making the spell require a "to hit" roll back in the day. I was shocked and pointed out to him that in the book it didn't require one and that was the whole point of the spell. He didn't care and made us roll to hit anyway. I don't think the spell is overpowered because of its ability to automatically hit, since at low levels a magic-user can only cast one or two per day and it offsets the magic-user's poor attack rolls. Since the magic-user gets so little to do, when he does something it should be impressive. At low levels, it isn't more powerful than sleep. But it is one of those rare spells that increases in power with no upper limit, so a lot of magic-users (like Maylin) load up on magic missile at higher levels. That may bother some DMs but it doesn't bother me, since I like the idea of magic-users having some lower level spells that are still useful at high levels, rather than just memorizing a lot of "dead weight."
One of the facts about AD&D is that magic missile is a great spell, and that's just how it is. If EGG allowed the spell to target non-living things as well as creatures, I'd allow that also.
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 10, 2020 7:44:24 GMT -5
Completely from memory, when I talked about GREYHAWK SUPPLEMENT I (1976) with Gary (Gygax), he mentioned that Magic Missile was more of a class ability fix than a spell and that it was technically a spell but it was more of a balance feature from play. Plus, he brought up his idea that there could never be a "Magic Missile of healing" when designing new spells because all movable healing should be hands on. I think that is the only MM thing that I heard from him directly.
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Post by GRWelsh on Aug 10, 2020 9:51:51 GMT -5
AD&D is so well balanced because it is one of the most play-tested games ever. It came directly out of that fertile 1973-1979 time period when EGG and others were playing constantly. So, the only changes I make are usually due to expediting things, or fleshing things out, but not to "correct game balance." I don't think it needs correcting. When people complain about this or that spell being too powerful, I always think: what game are you playing? AD&D is deadly when played properly. The odds are already against the players, so let them have some powerful spells and magic items. Part of the game is figuring out as a player what works best. I don't punish players for 'exploiting' a spell or magic item in an effective way. That deserves praise.
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Post by geneweigel on Aug 10, 2020 11:06:40 GMT -5
I just remembered another official bit on Magic Missile from the THE ASTRAL PLANE by Roger E. Moore with marked editing by Gary Gygax to make it official (I marked the Gary correction as large):
As an aside to this, in THE NINE HELLS series that was given to dipstick Ed Greenwood to flesh out there was a limited list of spell alterations in THE NINE HELLS PART II in DRAGON MAGAZINE #76 (AUG 1983) that had Frank Mentzer corrections to give it a somewhat official stance. There was zero mention of Magic Missile not even Wand of Missiles.
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GT
Wizard
Duke of Indiana, Knight Commander
Posts: 2,032
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Post by GT on Jan 22, 2021 17:51:15 GMT -5
In my campaign, I decreed that magic missiles are simply bolts of force, with no heat element. They are a first level spell whereas flame arrow, essentially a spell to ignite the arrows of fighters is third level! (I modified that spell a bit to make it a bit more worthy of being at the same level as fireball and lightning bolt).
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