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Post by GRWelsh on Jul 23, 2020 6:45:59 GMT -5
Scott is helping me refine house rules but anyone is welcome to chime in.
- Minimum hit point at 1st level rule from UA (i.e. 51% or greater). - Characters below 0 hit points restored by magic to positive hp do not need to rest per the DMG rules, and are able to fight, but they do lose all spells memorized or prayed for (i.e., must rest if they want to memorize or pray to get spells back). - Initiative is group-based using d6 with lower score winning. Ties mean each side goes simultaneously, but sometimes we reroll ties. - Spell casting times are added to the initiative roll, with 1 segment per pip, and may finish casting in the next round if above 10 segments. - Time required to learn new spells? - Time and cost required to write new spells into spell book (as well as cost of special inks, quills, etc.)?
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Post by geneweigel on Jul 23, 2020 9:09:48 GMT -5
If I was to use something like the zero hit points no rest it be something unique that can be lost like amulets rewarded from a quest that way everyone in the universe doesn't have to be raring and ready after defeat.
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Post by GRWelsh on Jul 23, 2020 9:34:03 GMT -5
In the past I've imposed the rules per the DMG about characters who go below 0 hit points not being able to fight immediately when healed back above zero and having to rest for multiple days to recover. Those rules are more than fair since previously in OD&D 0 hit points simply meant you were dead. My suggested house rule is purely based upon my preference and experience as DM in wanting to keep things moving along as much as possible and treating magical healing as more efficacious, yet with going below zero still having a traumatic effect with the loss of spells. Also, I have characters be dazed or stunned for at least a round after being restored to positive hit points. I suppose this is shifting the trauma away from fighting ability and towards limiting it to spell-casting. Without magical healing, the full rest and recovery time is still required.
This house rule idea comes out of low level play in which characters are constantly getting knocked below zero hit points, yet who have access to magical healing such as cure light wounds spells, potions of healing, etc.
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Post by Scott on Jul 23, 2020 9:54:16 GMT -5
I have gone back and forth on starting hit points, the 51% rule or max at first level. Currently with AD&D I am using the 51%. Lately I've been using the BtB unconscious rules. In the past I would give characters a system shock roll to see if they needed the extra rest or not, and I may go back to that. For spell learning, for the spell learned at leveling, I roll it into the time/cost associated with BtB training. For other spells it's 100 GP/spell level and 1 day/spell level to inscribe into a book. There is no time to learn a spell if you find it on a scroll or in a spell book. You just make the roll. If a PC is researching a spell without a source, then I use the BtB times/cost (as close as I can. Those cost rules are some of the most confusing in 1E).
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Post by geneweigel on Jul 23, 2020 10:41:14 GMT -5
In the post-modern AD&D, I think, game time is a major factor so anything that makes it easier is my only "house rule".
In general, about making it doable for light players, the vaunted "total party kill" is never a goal for me though. I can't do that. I would rather just end the game then continue later while giving tips for a better resolve/retreat than end a combat on one big sour note. Exceptional greed however, like the MONSTER MANUAL example of a large experienced group of somewhat but not powerful enough characters subduing a huge ancient red dragon at a heavy cost (3 fried)when they could have easily slain it right out or put it off for now, I'd have to let it stand even if they were all toasted.
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Post by grodog on Jul 25, 2020 16:43:18 GMT -5
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Post by GRWelsh on Jul 27, 2020 8:07:36 GMT -5
Thanks Allan -- I downloaded them and I'm reading them over.
Another house rule that I came up with was an old one about whether gnomes should get the constitution bonus save versus poison as well as magic. In the PH, dwarves and halflings get it for both poison and magic, but gnomes only get it for magic. In the MM, all three races get a saving throw bonus versus both poison and magic. I've always thought it was an oversight in PH that gnomes didn't get the bonus versus poison as well, so I made a house rule that they do. In OD&D, gnomes are one of the dwarf races IIRC, so I treat them all the same for these resistances.
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Post by grodog on Jul 27, 2020 17:14:08 GMT -5
I'll look, but I think Trent's OSRIC Companion also does that, Gary; it's a good catch!
Allan.
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Post by GRWelsh on Oct 22, 2020 12:14:15 GMT -5
Scott -- Please remind me how initiative with spell casting times works BtB and how you handle it. I thought you did d6, lowest roll wins, and the roll represents the segment of the round and spell casting is added on top of that. Also, do you give AC penalties to those casting spells in melee, and/or take away any Dex bonuses?
I've often been lazy and just had everyone on the side that wins initiative go first, including spell-casters, regardless of casting times -- unless the casting time is a turn or more.
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Post by Scott on Oct 22, 2020 12:45:57 GMT -5
There really isn't a BtB spell casting in melee procedure. Several ideas were being developed and an incoherent mix of them was pounded into the DMG. BtB high roll wins initiative and that can really make it wonky. I know at some point Gary did switch to low roll wins, and when playing AD&D he did add casting time to initiative. He had given me specific examples of spells he would memorize with this reason in mind. Gary's group tested the speed factor rules, and then never used them again. In theory I disregard Dex AC bonus, but in practice I usually don't worry about it.
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Post by GRWelsh on Feb 15, 2021 12:54:04 GMT -5
Is the cost and time of copying spells into one's spell book 100 gp/level/day a "By the Book" rule or a house rule?
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Post by Scott on Feb 15, 2021 15:16:18 GMT -5
The cost is by the book UA. The time of 1 day per spell level is specified for scroll writing, but nothing specific is detailed for writing in spell books.
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 15, 2021 15:36:16 GMT -5
Here is the original comparative of BTB:
From DMG page 115(1978) "Manufacture of Scrolls":
From DRAGON #62 (JUN 1982) FROM THE SORCEROR'S SCROLL: "EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEVER KNEW ABAOUT SPELL BOOKS" (This was reprinted in UNEARTHED ARCANA 1985):
So originally BTB was as scrolls with creative searching then it was a flat price which in turn can be used to apply to scroll manufacture.
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Post by GRWelsh on Feb 16, 2021 8:20:12 GMT -5
So, a magic-user starts out with a standard spell book that will hold up to 24 total spells of 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th level, and each time he writes a spell into his book he needs to spend 100 gp/level worth of special inks, quills and special materials. Per the DMG, it looks like intention was for the process to be much more involved with the inscriber needing to personally compound the ink from special and secret ingredients. Is the FTSS article simply an abbreviated version of what is in the DMG, breaking it down abstractly to cost and time? So, Scott's magic-user, Masric, may indeed have to figure out the special and secret ingredients needed for each spell, but that happens "off camera." I could assume these special and secret ingredients may not be available in ordinary shops for scriveners but could be purchased from a specialist like an alchemist.
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Post by grodog on Feb 16, 2021 9:27:29 GMT -5
We use the standard rules for Write in cost/time for the transcription of new spells outside of the training process.
Allan.
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 16, 2021 9:57:51 GMT -5
I think BTB play was a rare beast in games that I had entered in the 1980's except for setting up tournaments. Honestly? My grouping's setup was a unicorn of rare stripes with the crude "think tank" circa 1984 or so led by my friend Taylor who is not really a "rules lawyer" but more of an authenticist "if you're gonna learn the game, boy, you got to play it right..." kind of approach. There was no crusade to "walk the line". It happened organically. I had 7-10 kids sleeping over week after week in a big ass house taking turns on one computer to play WIZARDRY and ULTIMA in "color". So there was a lot of D&D talk and a lot of resources in the down time. By the end of 1987, players were generating magic weekly as BTB as possible. The "spell book" article that I cited was also reprinted BEST OF DRAGON VOLUME 3 (1983) the one with the bronze-coppery cover so it was very accessible.
The term "house rules" only came up during card games in the 80's with all the old gamblers having down time with the kids. Once the pre-second edition era (1986-1988) started, they began disregarding Gygax's little or no "options" of interchangeable campaigns. The whole "optional" rule concept was a kind of kid crutch that was introduced in 1981 by editors Cook/Marsh/Moldvay for their Blume brothers' teenager market effort "Basic-Expert" which was integrated in 1983 into editor Mentzer's pre-teenager/toy market "Basic-Expert" (Later expanded with Companion-Master-Immortals). The first signs are disregarding encumbrance and dexterity.
As an aside, I had most D&D official crap including the toys. My brother had even filmed a "D&D movie" with this crew with himself starring as "Groo the Wanderer" fighting "D&D monsters" with D&D references. I played an orc leader and a werewolf. Don't bother asking as it immediately went missing. The only video that I had for a long time from that period was a kind of remake of the Monkees movie at least in set up with endless scene shifts ala Monty Python and that was snatched. That started with a D&D game that was interrupted by Bela Lugosi. Yes, it was that good. A person in one of the movies years later became horribly disfigured. I think he might have taken it when I wasn't home when he came to visit. However, I believe is currently a hopeless grifting wastrel so that shit is beyond lost.
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Post by Scott on Feb 16, 2021 10:05:18 GMT -5
The way I handle it: for spell books and spells added as part of the leveling process I don't require the extra cash and research. I assume that's built into the training rules; that's part of what all that money and training time cover. For any spells above those gained while leveling, backup or traveling spell books, scrolls, etc. the extra time and money is required. I've never actually gone into the details of what ingredients are being used for the ink, just a basic guess on whether or not the components would be available to the M-U. The higher level the spell, the more resources would have to be available: ingredients for the lowest level spells should be available at a village apothecary or alchemist, the highest level spells may require access to the Greyhawk Guild of Wizardry's laboratories.
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 16, 2021 10:20:41 GMT -5
I think for me it goes by differences player to player for spell casters. If the players are lax then I make them all fighters. If they are medium interest I will give them the spells as they go up but usually dropping off playing the character prior to manufacturing "wizard" phase this is zero concern. If they are actively interested players they'll choose activities with money with above standard. If they are obsessive fantasists then money can be negotiable.
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Post by GRWelsh on Feb 16, 2021 11:08:43 GMT -5
Honestly, these rules never came up once in all of my AD&D games in the 1980's. Not once did I have a DM tell me "You ran out of room in your spell book and you need to buy a new one," or "You have to compound your own spell book ink, and find out what the ingredients are for each spell." We read every FTSS article and new rule book as it were the Word of God... Yet, I suppose play is the final arbiter.
Having all of these spell book related costs baked into training costs is a good way to handle it. I've never liked or used the training rules, however, so I'm looking to follow the other rules more closely for costs around spells, books, scrolls and material components. It adds flavor to the game as well as involving details that could prompt further adventuring or precautions.
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Post by geneweigel on Feb 16, 2021 11:43:05 GMT -5
I think that training is a good coverage for a light campaign but it might reach a point where it has to be audited.
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