Drizz't Syndrome

[geneweigel]

I randomly saw this:

QUORA: LEAST FAVORITE CLASS FROM ANY EDITION

I was wondering, does this apply to strict AD&D?

It seemed like rangers (and drow rangers) got progressively worse. But is it true? And why?

Is it that rangers are loners and second edition fucked the mercenary chart by adding gunners to the list encouraging this NPC-less adventuring trend?

Or is it that no one gave a shit about monitoring rangers' alignment based powers.

[GRWelsh]

It looks like he was referring to rangers of any edition. The 2nd edition version is silly with the two handed weapon fighting and armor limitations... Why two weapons? Just to emulate Drizzt, I guess, but that doesn't seem to have any relationship to the outdoor fighter or "giant slayer" archetype. In regards to 1st edition, I've never had any problem with rangers. Yeah, they have a wide range of abilities, but many of those do not come until much, much later. They get access to druid and magic-user spells, but they're so high level at that point that it is superfluous to what other spell-casters in the party can do. They have that extra hit die starting out, but fighters and paladins overtake them on average eventually with the d10 per level. Rangers are great to have in a humanoid heavy campaign, but their inability to have men-at-arms or henchmen at low levels should be a big negative in AD&D games. I can see limiting their surprise others ability to rangers wearing non-metal armor as a house rule, to align it with the similar ability of elves and halflings.

But really, what's wrong with wanting to play an Aragorn-like character or one inspired by the Rangers of Arnor or the Rangers of Gondor?

My least favorite is the monk. I have a long relationship with that class, so I know it well. I like that EGG was willing to experiment and break the mold of the four archetypal classes, and there are aspects of it that I like. But it just doesn't play like the kung fu genre advertises. For several levels, all you can do is run really fast.

[geneweigel]

I've had some brain dead players want to play a ranger and get condemned to losing the class.

I recycled two ranger PCs who died (I altered their names and changed some superficialities) and they really lasted as NPCs.

I think the biggest problem character that I have is the thief. Its too hard for the average player to get the concept. Either they're too uptight and they want it t be a boy scout or they're the opposite and its Joey Q. Sleazeball. Its rare to find an appropriate thief player.

[GRWelsh]

I've always thought thief works best as part of a demihuman multiclass, because then it feels like a supplement to a more solid archetype. In high school one of my friends played a half-elf magic-user/thief for a long time, and that was a great character. He came across as a lucky, jack of all trades, trickster sort. He always seemed to have a decent magic sword, and so was able to mix it up in combat a bit, also.

[geneweigel]

Not all players are created equal. I think what you're referring to is that certain DM class player who can make shit into fertilizer. The thief as an adjunct (DM run only) would be much more interesting than seeing new "off the street" players or old "rubber stamp" players do this turn for the worst everytime.

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

May 8, 2018 15:39:23 GMT -5 geneweigel said:

I've had some brain dead players want to play a ranger and get condemned to losing the class.

I recycled two ranger PCs who died (I altered their names and changed some superficialities) and they really lasted as NPCs.

I think the biggest problem character that I have is the thief. Its too hard for the average player to get the concept. Either they're too uptight and they want it t be a boy scout or they're the opposite and its Joey Q. Sleazeball. Its rare to find an appropriate thief player.

Ok, in the past two campaign sessions, three new players have joined the campaign, the new PCs:

Azel: high-elf cleric/thief, from Welkwood, follower of Celestian
Scott Keith: human ranger from the Gnarley Forest, follower of Obad-Hai
Diocletian 'Big Cletus': human thief, from Verbobonc, follower of Xan Yae

One new player, playing Diocletian, is absolutely hilarious and 'gets' the thief role! He straight-faced spins up all kinds of personal background tall tales streams, as well as claims of detailed knowledge of not only Verbobonc, but of some other past ventures in disparate Greyhawk locales (though he had never played AD&D before last night, nor has any knowledge of Greyhawk beyond the folio map the party possesses that he looked at and immediately improvised various claimed ventures?), and the party accepts him as a pathological liar, because he is so magnetically hysterical. (Both the player, and PC Big Cletus are just 20 years old!)

The pick-pocketing, sneaking silently in the shadows, and in-town building climbing has begun, as well as attempted barroom brawl instigation. Then there was betting on strongman Scott Keith's hobbit-tossing of Kerd. Even Scott Keith used his musical abilities to distract guards so the two thieves could sneak about...

So far, there have been nine different players in the campaign since starting last November. The party is filling out, with all players currently at first level, though some are now not all that far from experience point totals to advance to second level, that is, if they can survive...

[geneweigel]

Thieves going off the page in town is my biggest pet peeve. When people play thieves they go freeform chaos thinking its mundane and safe and that they're the bad guy. Not in my universe!

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

May 17, 2018 13:02:00 GMT -5 geneweigel said:

Thieves going off the page in town is my biggest pet peeve. When people play thieves they go freeform chaos thinking its mundane and safe and that they're the bad guy. Not in my universe!

Gotcha!😀

'Big Cletus' has an outstanding arrest warrant - it's only a matter of time before the authorities catch up to him, I am thinking...?

And he pick-pocketed party member, Kerd. In turn, Big Cletus was then pick-pocketed by party member, Azel, who fleeced Big Cletus of his gain from Kerd, and then some...😄

[geneweigel]

I've messed with thief players with massive-leveled thieves robbing them for losing sight of the party/"the grid" but thats like nothing compared to some of the supernatural things. Like having light/noisy/shadow creatures expose them or have rooftop top of the line magic/monster proofing that is worse than the uncivilized dungeon.