|
Post by geneweigel on Apr 30, 2018 14:16:20 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Apr 30, 2018 15:36:38 GMT -5
WHAT KIND OF UNDERWEAR WORKS BEST WHILE DM-ING? DEPENDS! Seriously, it depends on what sort of campaign you're running. But every so often, your players take a few unexpected turns and you're in "I didn't know that was coming" territory! I'll have to check out the "Ruins of Murkhill" forum Rob mentions. It looks like an OD&D focus.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Apr 30, 2018 16:41:04 GMT -5
There is still quite a lot of critical thinking in regards all that went down in that D20 era that never seemed to be addressed.
The disappearance of Eric Shook, whats he up to? Did he ever finish those adventures?
Is Creations Unlimited still an entity and why not?
Is repackaging like NECROPOLIS for Gary and almost everything for Kuntz (Maure Castle, etc) a viable "market" (the magic Kuntz word) anymore? All those repackagings had a net sum of nothing to me.
Why was Necromancer Games so aggressively "game" into pushing for old D&D if they had no clue how to implement it past hiring classic names? Just another free angle to get into the "market"?
Who was at fault in the Kuntz versus Necromancer debacle?
What was the approach Kenzer used to access the trade dress for AD&D? A behind the scenes promise to be an incoherent parody as shown by the slop job on Rob's City of Brass?
Was Mike Mornard a part of Pied Piper? Why did he act so aggressive?
and the real $64,000 question:
What the hell was I involved for if nothing ever came of it?
Is there anything there that was neglected because of the collapse of the framework?
What of the characters in a town thing? Should we continue something like that but in a completely different creative way?
|
|
foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
|
Post by foster1941 on Apr 30, 2018 20:27:31 GMT -5
I'll have to check out the "Ruins of Murkhill" forum Rob mentions. It looks like an OD&D focus. It's a bizarre "fake news" site, because at least a dozen of the most prolific posters there (and possibly as many as 20 or more) have been verified as sockpuppets of the same single person - "The Perilous Dreamer" - a guy whose consistent bad behavior and sockpuppetry got him kicked off almost all of the other D&D discussion sites. I don't know if Rob didn't know this or just didn't care when he decided to make it his online home. Alas, his presence has brought a lot more real posters which has bolstered the profile and legitimacy of the site, which is a shame, because it's rewarding and encouraging what I'm convinced is an honest-to-goodness insane person.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on May 1, 2018 9:09:30 GMT -5
So Rob is working with the muppets now? Seriously, looking back at that Pied Piper Publishing era, I had the notion of "come on lets do something because all these yiping heads keep doing it wrong" was kind of sidetracked into the hope of Pied Piper but then it went to Dragonsfoot then just exploded out everywhere and lost the succinctness of utility. My original notion arriving at PPP was to make fresh shit that fits into the universal D&D that created fans and abandons the "yuppie corporate shithead" D&D that maintained but lost many fans. Between the shadowy world of Rob "do this for me and...bye.", the still corporate but different nature of third edition, the mysterious style/legality of D20 outer products and Gary's vapor Gord comic all of my output was rattled. When I first got to Dragonsfoot, to help out at Gary's request (demand?), I started working behind the scenes and it just went absolutely nowhere creative-wise. You want to talk about sock puppets. A Classic AD&D fan administrator who doesn't know anything about Classic AD&D then out of the blue dies without any remembrance or a photo by associates? Still that idea that I had coming into PPP remains of a universal contribution that people can do that makes it one whole unit of ideas. Thats where I was going but it just never came into being. It can't be creative because most people don't do creative the same way. Having people swaggering around like Mornard on PPP, various "my game is better" grudge lords on 2E/3E forums, as well as undead AD&D players who played so much "edition" they refuse to be resurrected holding to canards of evolution and/or progress JUST GET IN THE WAY. We still need to recapture some kind of universality but it has to no longer apply to editions or cult of personalities (which is what PPP and others like it and others became). PPP's soul-crushing ideas of markets have to be destroyed in the minds of the fantasists. Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance do not and never did exist. Maybe technically but not in reality. Just like Oriental Adventures its a no show. They never existed in the 1979 DUNGEON MASTER'S GUIDE standard of being thought through so therefore they are non-existent. The real "Best of Dragon" has yet to come. That is the game everyone wants to run. Never cave-in to what "the industry" is doing. That is the take home message from that era. The drive that was never fulfilled has to keep going. A shared creativity doesn't apply anymore. The fact about being creative with Sword and Sorcery is real world research then animation of fantasy in the mind this can't be done easily through text to text dialogue giving and taking. The final form has to be created piecemeal from things people like and then they get fit in. However some universal identifying element gets swept under the carpet in this instance. There has to be a drive that is shared but not the content. The content can be sorted user end as they see fit. Even saying that "Its blue dragon month! Everybody do a blue dragon theme!" its a nightmare. That just sounds intimidating. Some people play D&D and never even see a dragon much less a blue dragon just by coincidence. Then there is the idea of replication and shameless "you all get a star". It has to be the opposite. I was thinking for a universal sort of shared idea of a war of the wizards that is a concept that people can identify with and everyone's wizard of their world is trying to destroy each other. Not directly, but you can mention the other wizards from time to time with a notice. Then anyone can join in and have their world in the background and perhaps showcase a new element.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on May 1, 2018 9:53:52 GMT -5
Rob hanging out with 20 sock puppets is a strange image.
"It's sock puppet month! Everyone do a 'puppet' theme!"
|
|
|
Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on May 1, 2018 10:06:26 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly that a shared creativity cannot apply!
It has to be fully in the hands work of the sole designer or else it's an abominable miscarriage. Editing and feedback from other genius minds is one thing, the designer needs to maintain sole control of the entire process.
I'll meet you in Westworld with my wizard/gunslinger/monster/traveler/mutant/avatar connecting open invitation to experience my alternate world - that works - see you there, Gene!
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on May 1, 2018 10:18:01 GMT -5
Rob hanging out with 20 sock puppets is a strange image. "It's sock puppet month! Everyone do a 'puppet' theme!" I was going to Photoshop but then I thought it was bit much. Did Rob leave his own blog to start another blog? I can understand the company break ups (bills, etc.) but what was the point of that? He is a mystery. He doesn't seem to be the same "urban-oriented" Rob of GenCon 2002 for sure but I've seen people change extremely like my ex-cousin Bill and my ex-friend Henry... "HI, HAVE YOU MET MY NEW LIFE... I MEAN WIFE... <<<TTZZTT>>>... I'M COMING DEAR...kill me...kill me..."
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on May 1, 2018 10:36:24 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly that a shared creativity cannot apply! It has to be fully in the hands work of the sole designer or else it's an abominable miscarriage. Editing and feedback from other genius minds is one thing, the designer needs to maintain sole control of the entire process. I'll meet you in Westworld with my wizard/gunslinger/monster/traveler/mutant/avatar connecting open invitation to experience my alternate world - that works - see you there, Gene! I was thinking of an ongoing theme of a(n) World "Astral" War II that never ends with antagonizing wizards then its like a Lovecraft/Howard thing where its separate completely but tied in through the brief mention of the animosity if not specifics.
|
|
|
Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on May 1, 2018 10:42:46 GMT -5
I agree wholeheartedly that a shared creativity cannot apply! It has to be fully in the hands work of the sole designer or else it's an abominable miscarriage. Editing and feedback from other genius minds is one thing, the designer needs to maintain sole control of the entire process. I'll meet you in Westworld with my wizard/gunslinger/monster/traveler/mutant/avatar connecting open invitation to experience my alternate world - that works - see you there, Gene! I was thinking of an ongoing theme of a(n) World "Astral" War II that never ends with antagonizing wizards then its like a Lovecraft/Howard thing where its separate completely but tied in through the brief mention of the animosity if not specifics. Ok, what is your planar territory name of choice that you are going to creatively develop?
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on May 1, 2018 11:06:07 GMT -5
A wizard who is trying to destroy other wizards from other worlds but can/will never directly affect anything specific, of course, and instead its a red shirt wizard from an alternate world of your own who can be destroyed/interacted and everything else can be handled in an "Unaussprechlichen Kulten" manner where they can't be touched or interacted with without the direct consent or cooperation but can be mentioned in a non-interacting way.
Then this gets placed where ever. For me it would be my blog, of course, then implementing it into different forms now and then. Perhaps as small as an intro quote that segues into something else or as large as a planar exploration piece.
|
|
|
Post by amalric on Oct 16, 2018 16:45:20 GMT -5
Bottom line quesion: is any (new) incarnation of the long-promised Castle Greyhawk print (or Dunfalcon, or El Raja Key, or Whatever-You-Wish-to-Name-the-Castle-that-Was-and-Never-Was) ever going to see the light of day? That is, as EGG or Rob rendered, remembered and refined it? Or are we going to have to wait until all the old protagonists (and likely us) are dead, when all legal ramifications are lifted and we can all move on? By which point nobody will care any more. It is the one Grand Maguffin that hangs over all, and I (and doubtless many others) wanted to see it for a really long time.
|
|
|
Post by Scott on Oct 16, 2018 17:55:31 GMT -5
Not that I'm aware of. You hear kooky, disappointing news out of the Gygax Estate now and then, but it's all bad news.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Oct 19, 2018 15:03:49 GMT -5
I completely missed this post for some reason. I wanted to mention something about documentaries, I saw Ernie Gygax mention that two films about the creation of D&D are locked up in court. I have no idea what that means but it sounds like the same old same old.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Oct 20, 2018 9:12:07 GMT -5
Rob may have given us the most authentic glimpses we'll ever get into Castle Greyhawk as it was, with products like "Bottle City" and "The Living Room." Some of the maps in THE UPPER WORKS are authentic to a certain incarnation of Castle Greyhawk (the Mark II EGG/RJK version I believe). But I don't ever expect to ever see any more of it in a playable format. Gygax Games seems more interested in video games or movie deals. The best case scenario is an auctioning off of his notes with someone paying Rob to provide annotation and historical context, similar to what he did for "Bottle City." I would definitely kick in for such a kickstarter as that!
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Oct 21, 2018 12:33:20 GMT -5
Where is Rob anyway? I don't get why he dropped off the face of the Earth. Its been zero communication since before Gary died. My pet theory is that he's been kidnapped... Seriously, it seems like he is more "gone" than Gary with all this silence. He might chime in here and there on a blog or what not but it seems like he is completely off the ranch from my perspective.
|
|
foster1941
Warlock
Duke of California, Earl of Los Angeles, Knight Bachelor
Posts: 475
|
Post by foster1941 on Oct 24, 2018 14:50:42 GMT -5
Rob got married and moved to France (Corsica?), wrote a book about how Dave Arneson was the real creative force behind D&D and all Gary did was market a dumbed-down version of Dave's ideas, and has spent the last decade or so promising a book-length essay about how rpgs are really supposed to be designed and why everyone's been doing it wrong for the last 40 years (ever since TSR fired Arneson and didn't promote Rob to be head of creative and released AD&D and started publishing modules). Last I heard he'd pretty much decided to write off rpg fans altogether (because we're too defensive and set in our ways and didn't react enthusiastically enough to his telling us we're all doing it wrong) and was making vague noises about moving on to more lucrative ventures in other areas.
A year or so before all that happened he released a DVD-ROM including pdf and jpeg scans of most of the stuff he'd sold at auction over the last decade or so, including a lot of half-written adventures and some cool-looking vintage maps (mostly without keys). It was fun spending a couple days poring over this stuff, but I honestly haven't looked at it since, and there's nothing in there that feels like it would be directly usable in a game. Probably the most intriguing things to me were the original c. 1976 "dark druids" adventure (which is complete, and totally different than the d20 module later published under than name) and the map (without key) of the "black reservoir" level of Greyhawk Castle that Gary used in his famous story. Most disappointing was the section on the Lost City of the Elders, which was just some barely legible scribbles and a couple of very perfunctory maps that look like they were sketched on the back of a napkin. Maybe that's really all there is, but I suspect it's more likely that he was holding material back in hopes of being able to sell it separately.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Oct 24, 2018 21:31:22 GMT -5
Well, that is depressing. I don't need anymore D&D walkouts in my life so I'm creating a Robo-Kuntz program to send me PMs about chilling out on the criticisms of sketchy fantasy game products and their overexhuberant watchdog "fans"... Seriously, even if he did "come back" it wouldn't be the same. I feel like I motivated him too much for my own annoying greed for "lost D&D" to fill that habit that maybe he was holding some concept that we never heard of. If hes done then good luck but I think his appeal was in his potential not his C.V. of the past. If we find out that hes really done then I need to do something commemorative at the very least to wrap things up. Variant alternates of his projects like "Brass" and "Coast" with completely original new material new maps along the lines of what I think might have been good. That is probably a good fix.
|
|
|
Post by GRWelsh on Oct 28, 2018 8:31:42 GMT -5
Rob did start the company THREE LINE STUDIOS with his wife which has a THREE LITTLE BOOKS rpg brand which produced SUNKEN CITY. I got it and I like it. It is in the same size format as the original D&D box set, and update/expansion on an old tournament module he ran. TLS also published a book titled DAVE ARNESON'S TRUE GENIUS which I haven't read yet, but would like to. Praising Arneson isn't necessarily a slam against EGG. I'd have to read it to find out if that is the case.
|
|
|
Post by geneweigel on Oct 28, 2018 14:25:46 GMT -5
"Nice shooting, son. What's your name?"
Robo-Kuntz turns.
"<<<R.O.B.>>>"
Seriously, its become too disconnected at this point where there is a stop gap where I always get to the point of discontinuity of Shook era Pied Piper so in my mind I have to discontinue the whole thing and move on productively.
|
|