Hommlet to Nulb

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Jan 15, 2018 12:19:57 GMT -5 GRWelsh said:

My idea for a prequel was more along the lines of simply using Hommlet as a base location set between the events of CY 569 when the Temple fell and CY 579 when T1 "happens" -- developing the countryside around Hommlet with lairs, caves, mines, or other adventuring sites. So, maybe the adventurers are there during the in between period, stamping out the last of the monsters, or perhaps even being the ones who delivered the ashes of the monstrous troll who was plaguing the villagers during that time: maybe CY 575, around the time the Guide is set, an adventure making use of the Village of Hommlet as a location, but not necessarily making use of the moat house which ruined and truly abandoned during this period.

As to your other questions, I have always assumed the "vile cleric of damnation" at the moat house was the same person as the black lord of the place, and the warlock, major-domo, castle troop leader/petty official referenced were his human minions and all part of the forces of the Temple of Elemental Evil when it was expanding outward in concentric circles to subjugate the surrounding countryside. Major-domo in this context is probably more like head butler or steward in charge of the non-combatant servants. The moat house with dungeon was built circa 567-569, and "the builders planned for a long tenancy, although expectations were not met" (per the description for the BURIAL CRYPTS in #14 on the Dungeon Level). The upper level and towers of the moat house were for living spaces and guard posts for the rest of the garrison and servants... for the "black lord of the fortress, a vile cleric of damnation, and his evil men and humanoid troops" (I think it is clear the black lord is being identified as a vile cleric of damnation, and this is not referring to two separate persons, because this description is immediately followed up by 'his' rather than 'their' evil men and humanoid troops). The Temple forces were in full swing in regards to building projects, since they had just transformed a small chapel into the cathedral-like stone Temple with fortified outer walls and extensive dungeon levels beneath "in but three years." So building the moat house and its single dungeon level shouldn't have been too difficult for them. Also, they had magic to assist and expedite any building projects. The Fiery Eye symbol seems to have originated as representing the Elder Elemental God (similar to what is in G3) but later was revised to represent the Temple of Fire, one of the four lesser factions -- so the answer to the question of whether this symbol was in use in the past depends on when you imagine the four lesser factions being established. I think there certainly are lost areas due to the destruction, both above and below ground... There probably have been some repairs done in Lareth's time... A planned dig into other lost areas of the Dungeon Map is a great idea.

Several years ago -- maybe ten years ago or more, at this point! -- Paul Stormberg commissioned a miniature-scale model of the pre-ruined moat house, and used it to play out the battle set in CY 569, at a Lake Geneva Game Convention. He posted photos of it on the Dragonsfoot forums, and it was pretty impressive! I think they used CHAINMAIL Fantasy Supplement rules or something similar. I remember he made use of the older symbol of Y within a triangle on the flag of the as-yet unruined moat house.

What's everyone's ideas, if there were say a lost secret stairs down beneath the collapsed wall {either beneath or nearby where the brigands chest is buried} at the corner of moathouse upper level location #7, the black chamber, how extensive, what kind of denizens, treasure, locations might be found there? Since dungeon level locations #9 through #18 are roughly +/- 30 feet or more lower than dungeon level locations #1 through #8, what might be found in an extensive lost mid-dungeon level within the moathouse?

[GRWelsh]

You could always add in some additional store rooms, wine cellars, fruit cellars, etc. with perhaps a few notable places like a hidden treasure chamber or warlock's chamber... Since it is 'sealed off' for the most part, any monsters in there will probably be undead and creepy crawlies... Rats may be able to get in there if there a connection to the rat tunnels below.

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Jan 23, 2018 15:32:34 GMT -5 davegibsongreyhawkdm said:

Ok, if I am keeping both the east road out of Hommlet and also the overgrown track shown on the VOH map:

Note the VOH map states before the overgrown track forks its junction on the east road "to Nyr Dyv & the temple"

So, it is possible as follows:

1) the main road east out of Hommlet is the most direct route to the Nyr Dyv coast, which I would say after long travel deposits travelers and merchants heading east out of Hommlet directly into the walled city of Dyvers - this main road does not pass through Nulb or the temple area

2) the overgrown track heads roughly NE two miles into the hills above Hommlet, then turns more northerly, with the track dropping into boggy marshlands. There, off to the left (roughly west direction) can be seen the silhouette of the moathouse. I'm taking that the moathouse is at most two miles from Hommlet as the crow flies, more likely about 1-1/2 miles as the crow flies - then, the location of Nulb can be set approximately 4-1/2 miles further ENE of the moathouse, on the east side of the Imerdys Run, with no available west bridge/ford crossing.

3) the track continues past the moathouse seven leagues, until the temple area is reached. It sounds from the VOH module description that the moathouse is roughly due west of the temple, "the subjugated folk were then to be used as slaves to construct yet another fortress further west, as the evil power of the Temple spread in ever-growing rings to encompass all of the land round its base." Though the overgrown track continues (meanders?) seven leagues past the moathouse to the temple area, as the crow flies, there may be only about ten miles distance from the moathouse to the temple area.

4) it does not state in the VOH module text that the track connecting the moathouse to the temple area passes through Nulb. Neither does it state in the text precisely how close Nulb is to the temple area. The reference to Nulb being but six miles distant from Hommlet makes it likely a distance measurement "as the crow flies" with neither the overgrown track or the main road east out of Hommlet connecting directly to Nulb - this fits with its "out-of-the-way position."

Therefore, the temple is located ESE from Nulb, with roughly eight miles of distance separating Nulb from the Temple area? Adventurers with a base in Nulb can get to the temple in about 1/3 of the time and distance compared to using a base in Hommlet?

There is probably a roughly north/south seldom-used track located on the east bank of the Imerdys Run that connects Nulb and the low road to its north?

I was thinking about the Hommlet/Nulb/temple area map again...was wondering if it could be somewhat like the Kentucky Bend (aka "Bubbleland") exclave, which is completely surrounded by Missouri and Tenneessee, and reputed that the New Madrid series of earthquakes of 1811/1812 caused this area of the Mississippi River to flow backwards? The Mississippi River course was disrupted/mutable in this region. Kentucky Bend (at that time known as Madrid Bend) was developed as a major cotton-producing area. The fertile region was a mixture of lakes (including shallow, mutable Reelfoot Lake), sloughs, and swamps. The population just after the civil war would have been approximately the same as Hommlet?

The Kentucky Bend "notch" could be akin to 'out-of-the-way' Nulb?

Looking into the Battle of Island Number Ten, 1862...