B2 5E

[geneweigel]

I just checked this review of a B1-B2 to 5th edition conversion product. From the descriptions in the review, it almost seems like a guide on how not to handle D&D:

www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=79608

[Scott]

B2 was the original 5E playtest adventure. It was released in pieces and those who were signed up for the playtest would play it and send back comments.
There are a few things about 5E that I really don't like, but for the most part it's OK. It's balance and formulaic obsessed, but not to the degree that 3E was. Starting characters are beefed up, which I think is a good thing, but they go too far. Characters are hard to kill, and rate of advancement is much faster than I like. But in the moment, it doesn't play that bad.

[geneweigel]

"Edition" aside, the approach, from the review's descriptions, has that "Greyhawk booger dropped with a logo makes canon" feel BS that was chief in the inception of 3rd edition.

I'm pencilling in a B1-2 appreciation at some point. Twenty years later....

[GRWelsh]

I still haven't played 5E. Beefing up characters but not monsters in B2 will totally change the experience. I've always thought B2 was like going to war -- not everybody will survive. You either learn to become an effective tactical strike team or you all die. Even then, some will die. The stumbling blocks for modern players in B2 aren't that their characters are too weak, it has to do with common player assumptions like "We're heroes, we can do this on our own," "we shouldn't have to share treasure with NPCs," and "the challenges are scaled to our level so we can just walk right in," etc. Some of that can be un-learned through play, some through advice or tips given by the DM or helpful NPCs.

[geneweigel]

The big characters little monsters is the 2E mentality to a "T". Some people just get infected with it. I'm starting to look at it like its a disease or a condition of some kind at this point.

Perhaps there is a parallel between cryptic alliances and D&D after Gygax. I almost picture the 2E adherents as green mutants:

"NO!!! NO READ TEXT!!! IT IS SACRED REVISION!!! NO READ GYGAX EITHER!!! IT BLASPHEMY IT DOUBLE BAD!!! BAD GYGAX NEEDED 'DITION LAW OF UPGRADE!!! IT IS FORBIDDEN!!! NOT SAFE!! DOUBLE SATANIC!! READ GOOD CONVERSION CANON FIXES ALL"

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

The PCs need to learn that there are innumerable ways they can die in 1e - it was meant to be tough, and if they cannot learn to prepare well, hire MAA's, gain henchmen, ally with NPCs, use effective party teamwork, etc. they will surely die.

The current campaign has seen this struggle {should we enlist more help despite reduced individual monetary and experience rewards}, but overall it has been tough on the PCs, including death to PC Dontae on the second expedition to the moathouse.

B2 is cut from the same cloth, PC parties that greedily try to go it alone with small first level parties perish repeatedly.

[Scott]

The monsters are beefed up too, sometimes ridiculously so.
In some ways the changes are good things. Nobody likes rolling up multiple sets of characters until a few members make it to 2nd or 3rd level. the one hit and your dead thing isn't fun, the one short derringer 1st level M-Us could be a struggle to stay in it. There's not much flow. Even EGG stopped starting with 1st level characters. The last couple home games I know he ran he started the players with 2nd or 3rd level PCs.
The problem with 5E is they took it too far, and there's very little chance of individual PC death unless it's a TPK. 0 isn't dead, -3 isn't dead, etc. To be killed outright takes a lot of damage. Otherwise you're knocked unconscious and you have pretty good odds of stabilizing yourself.

[geneweigel]

Its that 2E remnant who keeps holding on for dear life. My biggest problem with third edition is that they did not delete the corpo-glob desk jockey bullshit. That should have been day one of the Wizards of the Coast takeover. Instead when Gygax wasn't fiscally possible they went with low-renting bottom-feeding desk jockeys who probably never even DMed an actual Gygax era AD&D game because it was "too willy nilly". The dragons of D&D don't even exist in "edition-vision". Its pathetic. What does a baby dragon have? A tank veneer?