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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 6, 2018 14:57:35 GMT -5
I am looking at the guard tower close-up artwork, picturing Burne departing walking down the curving flight of stone stairs, while Rufus stands on the lowered outer door of the tower, bridging from the tower to the outer landing:
From the orientation of the artwork, this artwork shows Rufus standing in the bottom half of an "hourglass" shape - does this pictorially mean his time is running out? When his time runs out he will fall onto rocks in the gap below, or else he will start a descent into evil?
Does Burne walking down the stone stairs mean he has already begun to descend into evil, just leaving the first step onto second step down of eight?
Is it significant that there are eight stone steps down, and that Burne is an eighth level warlock (he has started Wiccan practices)?
It is odd that the shield device above the guard tower entrance appears to display a scorpion? Why a scorpion here? Or is it a different creature?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 6, 2018 16:13:46 GMT -5
I am looking at the guard tower close-up artwork, picturing Burne departing walking down the curving flight of stone stairs, while Rufus stands on the lowered outer door of the tower, bridging from the tower to the outer landing: From the orientation of the artwork, this artwork shows Rufus standing in the bottom half of an "hourglass" shape - does this pictorially mean his time is running out? When his time runs out he will fall onto rocks in the gap below, or else he will start a descent into evil? Does Burne walking down the stone stairs mean he has already begun to descend into evil, just leaving the first step onto second step down of eight? Is it significant that there are eight stone steps down, and that Burne is an eighth level warlock (he has started Wiccan practices)? It is odd that the shield device above the guard tower entrance appears to display a scorpion? Why a scorpion here? Or is it a different creature? It's odd that the number of steps in the two-storied tower artwork {8} are different than what appears to be the number of steps shown on the VOH map view {appears to be 18, 19, or 20 but it's tough for me to tell with intercepting grid lines?}. Does this indicate that there are secret, cloaked by illusion stairs descending into natural caverns beneath the tower grounds? Where warlock Burne works in secret? Or is this instead a hint about the two-storied guard tower: need to look to Sir Arthur Ignatius Conan Doyle's other works, #8 and either #18, #19, or #20? "The Adventure of the Speckled Band", #8 of the 56 Sherlock Holmes short stories is in view. Note that the guard tower cellar looks like the outlined face of a cat taking a bong hit? This short story features Helen Stoner as the client and the noble royal family of Stoke Moran...
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 7, 2018 9:21:43 GMT -5
I am looking at the guard tower close-up artwork, picturing Burne departing walking down the curving flight of stone stairs, while Rufus stands on the lowered outer door of the tower, bridging from the tower to the outer landing: From the orientation of the artwork, this artwork shows Rufus standing in the bottom half of an "hourglass" shape - does this pictorially mean his time is running out? When his time runs out he will fall onto rocks in the gap below, or else he will start a descent into evil? Does Burne walking down the stone stairs mean he has already begun to descend into evil, just leaving the first step onto second step down of eight? Is it significant that there are eight stone steps down, and that Burne is an eighth level warlock (he has started Wiccan practices)? It is odd that the shield device above the guard tower entrance appears to display a scorpion? Why a scorpion here? Or is it a different creature? It's odd that the number of steps in the two-storied tower artwork {8} are different than what appears to be the number of steps shown on the VOH map view {appears to be 18, 19, or 20 but it's tough for me to tell with intercepting grid lines?}. Does this indicate that there are secret, cloaked by illusion stairs descending into natural caverns beneath the tower grounds? Where warlock Burne works in secret? Or is this instead a hint about the two-storied guard tower: need to look to Sir Arthur Ignatius Conan Doyle's other works, #8 and either #18, #19, or #20? "The Adventure of the Speckled Band", #8 of the 56 Sherlock Holmes short stories is in view. Note that the guard tower cellar looks like the outlined face of a cat taking a bong hit? This short story features Helen Stoner as the client and the noble royal family of Stoke Moran... Is it possible that with the noble family of "Stoke Moran" in view, the connection to be made to a second story is to John Carpenter's Assault on Precinct 13, via character name Austin Stoker?
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Post by GRWelsh on Apr 7, 2018 15:06:32 GMT -5
I’ve always wondered about the scorpion emblem too but assumed it was a creative license taken by Trampier since nothing about it is in the text.
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 7, 2018 17:53:30 GMT -5
I’ve always wondered about the scorpion emblem too but assumed it was a creative license taken by Trampier since nothing about it is in the text. It seems like it must be intentional, because it seems like Gary was directing Trampier's artwork, it seems like there are "pictures" in the artwork that are clues?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 7, 2018 18:06:06 GMT -5
I’ve always wondered about the scorpion emblem too but assumed it was a creative license taken by Trampier since nothing about it is in the text. It might be a straightforward reference to "Assault on Precinct 13": The gang stormed the precinct using a large durable sign as a shield for cover. So this could mean that an undead attack of zombies, lead by four ghouls = the four gang warlords of the film, so the temple forces must use some kind of shield to protect from withering scorpion fire from the guard tower's twin scorpions?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 7, 2018 18:26:36 GMT -5
I’ve always wondered about the scorpion emblem too but assumed it was a creative license taken by Trampier since nothing about it is in the text. It might be a straightforward reference to "Assault on Precinct 13": The gang stormed the precinct using a large durable sign as a shield for cover. So this could mean that an undead attack of zombies, lead by four ghouls = the four gang warlords of the film, so the temple forces must use some kind of shield to protect from withering scorpion fire from the guard tower's twin scorpions? The moathouse zombies can be viewed as a type of scorpion shield in themselves, since piercing weapons due only one hit point of damage to these creatures...
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 8, 2018 16:27:24 GMT -5
"The Adventure of the Silver Blaze" seems to fit well as possible plot twist to happen within VOH? "To the curious incident if the dog in the night-time." The Sherlock Holmes short story features disappearance of a famous race horse {owned by the elder?}, murder of the horse's trainer {John Straker}, a cataract knife found at the crime scene {was it the tailor?}, a club like walking stick {was it the Druid of the grove?}, a coat found draped of a furze bush, a cravat from an outsider in the victim's hand who had been previously expelled from town {that's why Mytch's family is cool toward strangers, suspicious with good cause}, the stable hand guard {Ned Hunter} (from VOH location #23?) drugged with opium after eating curried mutton, a shepherds three sheep kept at the stable having recently become suddenly lame, a milliner's bill for a 22-Guinea dress found on the victim (that's why it mentions the possibility of a milliner moving in to Hommlet was added into the "other adventures" section page 6 TOEE?!), a tallow candle found on the victim, the owners' dog staying quiet during the night of the horse's disappearance, the horse trainer discovered to have an expensive mistress, the horse that had disappeared was hiding in plain sight as dye was used to cover its distinguishing white markings, and the villain trying to earn a large sum of money by making the horse lame before a horse race! "Elementary my dear Watson!" Tentatively refining proposed cross at EGG's VOH: Sir Arthur Ignatius Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes' setting "Dartmoor" crossed with "at Mordor" JRR Tolkein's LotR's setting...
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 8, 2018 19:30:47 GMT -5
Located in Dartmoor is Jay's Grave, so I'm wondering about possible background connection here for Black Jay...?
Jay's Grave is supposedly the last resting place of a suicide victim NW of Hound Tor at the entrance to a green lane = Greenway Valley...?
The suicide victim reputed to be a maidservant at a farmhouse who hanged herself and was buried at night in the down above the house, the grave later reopened and remains not found...?
There are many versions of this tale. In one version the suicide victim had been raped by a local farmhand. In another version she had a romantic relationship with a farmer's son. In both of these versions she becomes pregnant which results in her being thrown out of the farm and left with a reputation as a 'slut', either hanging herself in a barn, from a lintel, or drowning herself in a shallow pool. It is said that the local parishes all refused to bury her body within consecrated ground, so as standard practice for suicide victims at the time, she was buried at a crossroads...
How many suicide victims might be buried at the Hommlet crossroads...?
Childe's Tomb is another landmark in Dartmoor.
The Imerys company (mining), founded by the Rothschild family, performed china clay mining in parts of Dartmoor...controversial for environmental degradation/exploitation of the moor...
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 8, 2018 22:14:31 GMT -5
It might work well to plot the area map for Dartmoor on hex paper as a starting point for modifying to map out the surrounding Hommlet area?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 8, 2018 22:37:45 GMT -5
Dartmoor brings with it Tavistock Abbey and Tavistock Town into view...also Sir Francis Drake...it is believed a hamlet existed on the site of the present town long before the town's official history began, with the founding of the abbey...
That may also explain the leap to Stockton, CA University of the Pacific's former (mother & daughter) students, who starred in 'Psycho' and 'Halloween'...
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 9, 2018 6:17:33 GMT -5
The other option is if as published VOH is set just prior to the crime committed in "Silver Blaze", that the strapping farmer of location #12 is having an affair with the carpenter's wife? This is tenuous however, because I don't see the strapping farmer marked as a "John" in the VOH text? The indication here is that he does have treasure hidden in a clay pot filled with dry flowers, and the treasure includes 36 gold pieces (which explains why the darkness rune is 36 squares in TOEE temple gates and also in 1983 WOG boxed set} a gold {future wedding?} ring, so it seems like he has gifts hidden for a lover with expensive tastes, and Straker = kraters = vases. I may go ahead and make this the Straker family..."strapping" sounds like this farmer is having an affair, and in Silver Blaze, John Straker was intending to use the cravat to strap up the horse's leg so it could be sneakily hobbled by him and returned to the owner's stable prior to the race. The horse however, sensed something was wrong and kicked the trainer in the head killing him, so it was not a murder in truth, but instead accidental death of the villain! The carpenters' wife has a silver chain of 12 silver coins worth 25 gold pieces, connecting her to the strapping farmer at location #12 and also to the herdsman at location #25 - it must have been on this herdsman's sheep that John Straker, the strapping farmer, practiced hobbling animals. Note that we also have WOG folio darkness rune = 16 squares, assassin Gremag has 16 dexterity and constitution both, the captain of the militia has 16hp, 16 constitution and wisdom both. So a possible interpretation is that the captain of the militia is assassinated at some point during this adventure, with other attempts to follow, likely Terjon and Elmo who have 16s and twinning 41 hit points. Other attempts to follow on could continue on anyone marked with "16" like Calmert, Nira Melubb, and Kobort. Other agents of evil have 16s and would work in darkness to help Gremag perpetrate assassinations: the traders' spy, and Lareth. Other notable residents of Tavistock besides Sir Francis Drake included Sir John the elder, a prominent judge of the Jacobean era, as well as Sir John Glanville, both junior and senior...
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 9, 2018 9:34:51 GMT -5
If it is a possibility that Hommlet contains some shadow elements of Lake Geneva: Is it possible that a former or else soon to be constructed "Oak Leigh (Hill) Sanitarium" is in view on the VOH map? Since the Oak Leigh (Hill) Sanitarium was on rising ground just south of Seminary Park, is it a fair speculation that the tunnels/warrens of the former sanitarium building may lie beneath a current VOH building structure(s)? What would these tunnels/warrens be like if they were located beneath the brewer's building VOH location #18? What denizens/intrigue would it be possible to introduce into VOH if something wicked lurks in warrens beneath Hommlet? Perhaps Psycho actress Janet Leigh was associated as a former resident of Lake Geneva's former Oak Leigh (Hill) Sanatorium, who is now a 'ghoul' in warrens underneath the moathouse or Hommlet?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 9, 2018 9:52:23 GMT -5
So the next allusion to look into is Bonnie {Elizabeth Parker} & Clyde {Chestnut Barrow/Champion Barrow}? Are we supposed to have in view a soon-to-be 7th level fighter {champion}? Carnelian scarab, similar color to chestnut, similar color to puce, eventual "puce" knight of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight = commander of the Hommlet Company and leader of the guard tower squad of men-at-arms = Rufus? Canonness Y'dey as type of Bonnie Elizabeth Parker? Brother farmers at VOH locales #1 and #5 as allusion to Texas Rangers Frank A. Hamer and Harrison Hamer? Or are these instead allusions to brothers Otis and Elmo? Note that there were a total of four Hamer brothers who were Texas Rangers... Herdsman {VOH #25} an allusion to Constable William "Cal" Campbell? Perhaps Rufus' time is running out because he will eventually become 7th level "Champion" Barrow {wight} = Clyde?!
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 12, 2018 11:48:04 GMT -5
Another connection with EGG and Stephen King = 'Dark Tower' protagonist Cuthbert "Bert" Allgood = St. Cuthbert???!!!
Cuthbert Allgood is noticeably skilled with a slingshot: 'take a bird on the wing at 50 yards with it'
Was this why TOEE was delayed from being published until after Stephen King had published "The Gunslinger" in 1982?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 12, 2018 12:00:24 GMT -5
Another connection with EGG and Stephen King = 'Dark Tower' protagonist Cuthbert "Bert" Allgood = St. Cuthbert???!!! Cuthbert Allgood is noticeably skilled with a slingshot: 'take a bird on the wing at 50 yards with it' Was this why TOEE was delayed from being published until after Stephen King had published "The Gunslinger" in 1982? An EGG/King nexus would confirm that we are to view Stephen King's multiverse resident in EGG's WOG! And also confirms VOH & TOEE to have in the background: "The Lord of the Rings", Arthurian Legend, and "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" Roland Deschain = "Man with No Name"
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 12, 2018 12:08:14 GMT -5
Gan is to "Dark Tower" as Ganz is to TOEE...?
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Post by davegibsongreyhawkdm on Apr 12, 2018 16:55:18 GMT -5
Another connection with EGG and Stephen King = 'Dark Tower' protagonist Cuthbert "Bert" Allgood = St. Cuthbert???!!! Cuthbert Allgood is noticeably skilled with a slingshot: 'take a bird on the wing at 50 yards with it' Was this why TOEE was delayed from being published until after Stephen King had published "The Gunslinger" in 1982? The connection to King's "Dark Tower" multiverse brings also poet-sage Robert Browning into view, among his works "Paracelsus" and "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came". Robert Browning also has a translation of "Agamemnon"... Robert Browning's wife was also a famous poet and her work a major influence on both Edgar Allen Poe and Emily Dickinson...
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Post by geneweigel on Apr 12, 2018 17:32:38 GMT -5
My poetry teacher in high school was obsessed with Emily Dickinson so I got a lot of that underlying horror which can be said of the whole D&D.
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Post by GRWelsh on Apr 13, 2018 7:14:28 GMT -5
I don't think there is any real connection here, but when I first read THE GUNSLINGER I immediately thought of the "Sixguns & Sorcery" section in the DMG which provided rules on converting AD&D characters to BOOT HILL and vice versa. And so it also brought to mind Murlynd and alternative Prime Material planes with the idea that these weren't just different time periods but entirely different universes within the multiverse. It was an idea that has been around forever, and we'd seen it in fiction like the "Mirror, Mirror" episode in Star Trek, Gardner Fox's "Flash of Two Worlds!" storyline and subsequent crossovers in DC Comics, or the "Wood Between the Worlds" in THE CHRONICLES OF NARNIA.
THE GUNSLINGER was a great book because it had such a surreal atmosphere... you had these archetypes travelling across a dreamlike waste -- with anachronisms like "Hey Jude" being played on a piano in a Wild West setting -- yet with nothing really being explained. The books after that didn't have the same atmosphere or feeling.
I'd forgotten Cuthbert was the name of a character in the DARK TOWER series. The name of Cuthbert is in the Browning poem, which inspired the series, so that is almost certainly the source. I'm not sure if there is any connection to AD&D or the World of Greyhawk, here, but I seriously doubt it. But I would love to know why EGG first used Saint Cuthbert as a deity in the World of Greyhawk. In the earliest days of play, there was no organized religion or mythology detailed in D&D, and the earliest clerics may have been assumed to be Christian crusaders not unlike Templars, or "fighting clerics" on the Bayeaux Tapestry, or Turpin the Bishop of Reims from THE SONG OF ROLAND. So it isn't too much of a stretch to think someone could have picked a patron saint for their character. On the other hand, EGG may have simply pulled the name Cuthbert out of history or poetry to name a god in his personal D&D world, because he liked the sound of it.
"St. Cuthbert was more of a joke than otherwise. Consider the advicacy [sic] of pounding sense into someone's head by dint of blows from a club."
-- from Gary Gygax: Q & A (Part XII, Page 8)". EN World. 23 August 2006.
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