VOH Moathouse Chaotic Evil Trifecta: Lubash, Lareth, & Lolth

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Feb 8, 2018 13:38:50 GMT -5 davegibsongreyhawkdm said:

Feb 8, 2018 13:22:26 GMT -5 geneweigel said:

so thats why the "r" as in "rod" was removed.. SORRY! TOO FAR!

So did Lareth and the Queen of Furyondy "loll" around at Hommlet's Inn in the past, or instead are they yet occasionally trysting at the moathouse?

It sure seems like the well-endowed Lareth's lavish chamber furnishings at the moathouse are set up to entertain a lover? Is Lolth intermittently teleporting in the Queen of Furyondy to feed his insatiable depravity? I'm sure he's got some good romantic moves enabled by his phylactery of action?!😉

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

So, if you are EGG, and you want to create an alternative adventure locale for players of the Greyhawk campaign, and desire to make it a knightly/Arthurian motif:

You start with Lancelot as an intriguing final adversary. His "lancing"/cuckoldry of Arthur Pendragon's betrothed Guinevere, and the exposure of the affair by Guinevere's sorceress enemy, Morgan and two of King Lot's sons, Agravain and Mordred, had led to Lancelot fleeing and Arthur reluctantly but lawfully sentencing Guinevere {similar to (Lake) Geneva, so we could expect some similarities of Lake Geneva, WI and/or Geneva, Switzerland within Hommlet} to be burned at the stake. Arthur sent Knights to defend the pyre, with Gawain refusing Arthur.

Gawain's brothers Gaheris and Gareth are killed in battle as Lancelot rescues Queen Guinevere. The enraged Gawain pressures Arthur into confrontation with Lancelot.

Guinevere is left in the care of Mordred, when Arthur goes to fight Lancelot in France. Mordred conspires to marry Queen Guinevere, and take Arthur's throne. Arthur hears of the treachery, returns to Britain, and slays Mordred. Severely wounded, Arthur is taken to the Isle of Avalon by Morgan. Guinevere meets Lancelot once more, and then she spends the rest of her life in a convent.

If you're EGG, you play with the names from above because you don't want to name the final adversary Lancelot, and make your sources of inspiration obvious. So, thinking about the background above:

1) Break off "lance", from Lancelot's name, give that instead to the adventure's final adversary as a weapon. Then you have King Lot out of the inspirational background story. Use one of his sons, how about Gareth? There's a lot to his story. So the name and background of Gareth is a root to build the adventure around.
2) Loll - Lancelot's fallen to evil deed, was to "hang loosely" with Arthur's betrothed young promiscuous wench, Guinevere. So loll is also a root word to build the adventure around.
3) Wabash - Arthur had to cross water to go after Lancelot in France. Let's just change this crossed water in this tale to that of a different kind and name. How about the Wabash River that I'm familiar with? So Wabash is a root to build the adventure locale around.
4) Who is another military leader besides Arthur Pendragon who had to cross water to engage battle? How about Rommel who crossed water to engage battle in North Africa? So Rommel is a root personage to build the adventure around.

So now we have:

1) Gareth
2) Loll
3) Wabash
4) Rommel

Time for some mashups:

1) Gareth, as pseudo-Lancelot, needs to be connected to his "loll" with Guinevere. Let's just take "l" from the end of lol(l) to swap out with "G", so now pseudo-Lancelot becomes Lareth.
2) Let's connect the leftover 'lol' to pseudo-Lancelot, Lareth. Attach "th" from him onto 'lol' to make Lolth, who spun a tangled web of deceit! Now pseudo-Guinevere hangs loosely onto pseudo-Lancelot, Lareth. Their names start and end the same, what a cute couple!
3) Rommel, as pseudo-Arthur Pendragon, has Gareth, as pseudo-Lancelot, as an adversary. Let's attach them in conflict: Rommel by attaching the "th" at the end of his adversary's name onto the front of Rommel's so now he becomes Thrommel.

Now we have:

1) Lareth
2) Lolth
4) Thrommel

What to do with 3) Wabash? The "river" of once faithful love between Guinevere and Arthur. A "river" of defiled love now flows between Guinevere and Lancelot. Let's connect the Wabash to Lareth and Lolth - the (L)abas(h)? Not quite there yet, so taking the first vowel in each of their names in place of the first "a" in L(a)bash, is it L(ao)bash or L(oa)bash? Let's take the second and tweak it from L(oa)bash to L(u)bash.

So now we have added:

3) Lubash

Make an adventuring country town locale across the river out of Thrommel's name, where his river of love was defiled - Hommlet.

Put a defiling church (temple) nearby to Hommlet, that consummated the defiled union of Lareth and Lolth? The major domo who wed the defiled couple acts the part of priest, wearing his (very poorly fitting) shepherd's cloak (suba), but he's really an ogre through and through!

Thrommel instead serves the cause of a righteous priest. Who is that? One who opposes webs of deception...one who bravely and righteously {cross over to Saint Cuthbert here} comes to wall Lolth in alive within the defiled temple! Yet Lareth plots to free his love Lolth, fearing she may meet her end on a fiery pyre {of the EEG}? Lareth is vanquishing and gaining the defection of Knights to free his love? Although he is tasked with gaining followers and land under the fiery eye symbol cloak of the EEG, he is only truly motivated to free his love, Lolth?

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Lubash, Lolth, Lareth:

So since we were able to use an anagram ubas to suba in L(ubas)h, let's just use L(olt)h and L(aret)h to secondarily flesh out the adventure setting further:

olt = Olt River/Olt Defile mashup with Wabash River. Has keep(s) on the borderlands, monasteries. Cuts through tall mountains. Fals River or lower Fler River + Velverdyva River from Fals/lower Fler fork length = Olt River length + Wabash River length, with modification of Nyr Dyv extension west to just NE of Verbobonc.

aret = dragon's mouth orchid mashup with Lareth. Let's put Lareth "the beautiful" in a boggy swamp lowland setting.

Maybe if we also mashup ubas with Lolth, we get a deceitful priest that fooled around {out of the Archclericy of Veluna, perhaps even His Venerable Reverence, the Canon of Veluna; shepherd of the faithful, himself}?

The mashups can keep going - we already know that Lolth has a "beautiful" form she can take, maybe a fearsome dragon-beast monstrosity could rise out of the "beautiful" River?

I think it is likely that Lareth is best understood as a type of fallen shepherd/knight.

And Lolth was once, in forgotten ages long past, a good elven Queen, who long ago took her fall into {prostitutional?} webs of deceit?

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

"Rome" is contained within Thrommel's name, so some more mashups are possible:

1) Rome + Wabash {river} = what is the main river through Rome?
2) Rome + Loll = what are famous scandalous affairs amongst leading Romans?
3) Rome + Gareth = who are famous Roman Knights?
4) Rome + Rommel = look into details of Rommel's activities in Rome/Italy?
5) aret + Thrommel = King Thrommel is a beautiful Paladin?
6) loll + Thrommel = did Thrommel have a scandalous dalliance - by the way, is it King {Uther Pendragon} Thrommel yet reigning on the throne in Furyondy, and young Prince {Arthur Pendragon} Thrommel who is captive in the temple?
7) olt + Thrommel = this is Thrommel crossing the Velverdyva River to engage in victorious battle at Emridy Meadows?

At least it is fitting that there were Roman forts on the Olt River for defense from the eastern borderlands.

I'm not sure there is much else to the above mashups or not? It seems like the VOH moathouse chaotic evil trifecta of Lubash, Lareth, and Lolth provide the most meaty mashups material?

I haven't looked into these mashups yet...

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

I probably should have stopped to rest my mind 1-1/2 posts ago...all this mashups activity is starting to get jumbled and confusing, getting me lost...enough for now!

[geneweigel]

The major thing is people. Thats like the people surrounding him in his life. I don't think he had a major grudge against anyone in TSR at the T1 time period but I could imagine he could generate quite a few people who didn't like him because of his outspoken nature. These might be sources of all these elements.

The fact that he named Erelhei-Cinlu after his children is most likely representative of children's mischief. Thats a big leap so Arneson as a leader of hill giants and/or or a highly suspicious trader secretly working for the Temple of Elemental Evil is most likely a fun poke at Dave's tendency to not be on the same page as Gary.

So with this in mind it can be applied to most of the TOEE characters.

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Fuhrer = "dance" & "pants off"

Dance/pants off - on - dy(vers)

Vers = verse (poetry)

King Fuhrer-yo(rk)-(a)n(d)-dy(vers) - evil did come out of Dyvers activity!
Ost = east

Verk = third significant composition work

King Furyondy affair to the east with {sorceress?} of Dyvers?

Poetry of the third = Shakespeare's Richard III

George {think Turuko} Duke of Clarence is Edward's IV's brother in the play.

We pick up "winter of our discontent" at the beginning of this play, which is the tie to Steinbeck.

"Sun of York" punning reference to the badge of the "blazing sun" {think fiery eye?}, which Edward IV adopted, and "son of York" {the son of the Duke of York}.

Richard is an ugly hunchback {think Lubash the Ogre?}

Richard plots to have his brother George, the Duke of Clarence killed by bribing a soothsayer to prophesy before suspicious King Edward IV.

Richard then schemes to woo the Lady Anne, widow of Prince of Wales.

There's a lot more I'm sure, but there's a start...

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Voll-luna

Voll = oaf-like, easily frustrated, short-tempered, useless person, delegates everything and nothing gets done

Voll = full/completely/saturated/drunk; used together with ganz, "voll and ganz" = full/completely/saturated/drunk + ganz = wholly

Luna = moon/loon/Artemis/werewolf

The venerable Archcleric of Veluna is an oaf-like, easily frustrated, short-tempered, useless person who delegates everything and nothing gets done? He's completely drunk all the time? He's saturated/drunk with the moon, crazy as a loon, he's a werewolf?! He is "saturated" with sorcery/the sorcerer, the offspring sorcerer{ess} of Ganz? The Archcleric of Veluna is secretly a sorcerer or in league with a sorcerer(ess)? Senshock? Is Senshock related to Ganz {I'm thinking the traders', Senshock's, and Commander Hedrack's black scarabs with the "TZGY" were in the original manuscript instead "NGAZ"}? A descendant of Ganz and the Gynarch (Despotrix) of Hardby? Related to the mad arch-mage Zagig-Yragerne? Related to Iggwlf?

How is the Scarlet Brotherhood seeking advantage by leveraging forked/duplicitous/chaos/demon-worship undermining the Archcleric(y) of Veluna and Kingdom of Fur(y)ond(y) - two demons at work here? Does every Greyhawk named area/personage with a forked 'y' within its name have the stain of sorcery/demon-worship? The symbol of the EEG a forked Y = demon within a triangle = sorcery? That's the ultimate goal of the temple, by means of sorcery turn "holy crosses" into "unholy forked chaos Y?" Will need to think about the assembly of (Y)ellowskull some more, which term sounds like EGG, while the orb of golden death sounds like Frank Mentzer? Iuz is "red skull", tied to Shield Lands order of Knights, Lolth is tied to "yellow skull?" Are there skulls of slain Knights of the Hart used to create an artifact? Demons have been hunting down and slaying Knights of each WOG order and replacing them with their own demonic agents? Using a full set of WOG order Knights' skulls, the temple of the EEG can be accessed? Need also silver, black, blue, green skulls?

Using the forked "y" at the center of ab(y)ss, demons at work: N(y)r D(y)v, D(y)vers, Velverd(y)va River {located at a fork in the river?}, Gre(y)hawk, Hardb(y), Gnarle(y) Forest, Pa(y)nims, (Y)eomandr(y), N(y)rond, (Y)atil Mountains, Riftcan(y)on, Cr(y)stalmist Mountains, Sobanw(y)ch, Wooll(y) Bay, Greenwa(y) Valley, Imerd(y)s Run, Viscount(y) of Verbobonc. Even the Horned Societ(y) is not uniform to deviltry influence.

Note that the multiple forked Velverdyva River is significant, linking demonicism of the Temple of Elemental Evil fed from the upstream Yatil Mountains and Iggwlf.

It cannot be discounted that some local personages may come under the sway of demons: M(y)tch, (Y)'de(y), Brother Sm(y)th, Black Ja(y), and rat-faced Samm(y).

Now it is apparent why Elmo, el-mo(on) acts like a drunk oaf and everyone buys his act - it is stereotypical of St. Cuthberites? Then there's his brother Oaf-ish {a ranger knight!} clearly a delegating "Voll" who will leave everything to the PCs to 'sink or swim' at the temple after accompanying them on but one or two expeditions, while not unduly risking his life.

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Yellow skull and Lareth? Tibetan Buddhism? Need to string together a skull necklace, a munda-mala garland of Knights skulls in order to reach through the emptiness to free the EEG?

Otis is a yellow skull {cowardly?} ranger knight {an unfit fallen knight of not less bravely St. Cuthbert} and his head is needed to complete the artifact, so Lareth is searching for him to slay him?

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

That's why Otis is away on a quest, to overcome his yellow cowardice and face the temple, though it may mean his doom? And the doom to the forces of weal? And that is why Otis' father is shameful/sorrowful, his father not even proud to mention that he is captain of the Hommlet company, and why Elmo {of the moon} who IS full of bravery {to the point of looney foolhardiness, or else is he really a werebear, Jaroo having a bear companion a reflective appositive hint to this truth?}, is eager to accompany adventurers for next to nothing, to go up against the forces of woe.

Also, I am thinking that the original true TOEE, under the leadership of the EEG, WAS located on the shore of the Nyr Dyv, and was part of the sinking of the Isles of Woe in the Nyr Dyv, so that the current phony TOEE near Nulb that Lolth raised with her web-spinning deceitful ruse is not in the same location as the true TOEE, which was sunk into the unknowable depths of the Nyr Dyv to extinguish it?

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

I am thinking that when lycanthrope Elmo is hard-pressed up against Lareth and his minions, he would transform to bear form in desperation to maul the enemies!

It must be why the stock is all healthy and plump at Elmo's parent's somewhat rundown farm, because as a werebear, he cures all imminent diseases.

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Maybe that's why the Old Faith is wary of the new St. Cuthberites settling into the area, due to suspected lycanthropy within their midst, which is how Black Jay lost his family while he was away at the war, and why there are various widows and widowers in the VOH? It's too awful and painful for most people to speak of...

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Calmert = cal/bald (hill) + bravery = Calvary = Golgotha {Golgota in Polish, and as well the scientific name for the marigold flower, which also explains Polish name Lubash}= place of the {yellow/gold} skull {mount of execution (at the temple)} = location of the skull of the first man {Adam}, the skull-shaped hill sunken now to the center of the earth {Oerth}, where Adam's body {associated with EEG?} is located! There's an Easter EGG {the keys laid by Lolth in the center of the Oerth}

Dia de los Muertos, the Targetes erecta {cempasuchil or flower of the dead} or African marigold {think Desert Fox Rommel in North Africa/Thrommel} guide the fragile life spirits to their altars {of death} using their vibrant colors and scent.

Oerth/Perth = Perth, Australia is nearly the most isolated city of the world. Auckland, New Zealand is actually more remote. So Erelhei-Cinlu is the second most remote city in Oerth, with the Lost City of the Elders being the most remote, and that is where the keys to release the EEG need to be taken across the Sunless Sea through the East Indies to arrive {additionally through planar travel?} to the Lost City of the Elders, where the EEG can be loosed from imprisonment?

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

And Hommlet sounds like Hamlet, to indicate a Shakespearean tragedy connection.

Hommlet certainly is EGG's tragic adventure masterpiece!

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Is Iggwlf meant to be seen then as the "wolf" of once Zagig who then became Zagyg when forked by falling into demonism, spawning Iggwlf from a demon consort?

Since then Zagyg has been chaotically scrambling to counter this cunning demon arch-Mage/priest he spawned?

A wolf mask is associated with Tormorast and a wolf head is associated with the Lost City of the Elders in Mordenkainen's Great Adventure...

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

The nucleus of a cell, Nulb = was nubbin (diminutive nub: stunted, undeveloped) with lumpy (cancerous abnormal growth) has now become a nub due to "L" = Lolth (most to blame Lx2) brought together Lareth and Lubash.

Lumpy, cancerous, protuberance Nub + L(olth) = Nulb

Contains lun meaning lee, next to and protected from the wind by that thing (temple which is in hills above Nulb). Is the earth temple faction sheltering Nulb from the air temple faction?

Contains bun = knot, a bun is in the oven (we're burning babies here!)

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Woolly Bay = wool lay by = prepare Scottish sheep's head, a delicacy fit for the gods on high Olympus! We're drowning men at the temple and boiling their heads in water (after their hair has been singed and scraped away or scalped) and also a meat saw has cleaved their heads from the crown to the tip of their nose. Their brains are then removed and blood drained in salted water, before boiling in water the brainless head. After the brain is prepared separately, it's dinner time!

Ostler has boiled crayfish on the menu. So perhaps the moat house pool was used by the original major domo to boil sheep's head or else drown and boil men's heads for feasting? That's what the human skull covering the pin is from, a cast off leftover from a meal (if so, the skull should be cleaved straight down from the crown to the nose)?

Maybe I will have Ostler prepare a celebratory meal if the party has significant success, offering them sheep's head dinners and letting the party see how it's prepared?

The VOH weaver has a pin set with a gem - so does the giant crayfish pool. The link here being sheep and what happened in the past within the moathouse pool.

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

There's a lot more here, I just need time in the next few days to put the VOH puzzle pieces together.

Will then move on to the temple of elemental evil puzzle.

But you all may know or figured out these two interrelated puzzles already?

Gene, that really helped with loll, Sir Gareth (Beaumains), Wabash River, and Thrommel/Hommlet!

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Hommlet/temple is symphony of three movements:

(1) Hamlet inspired: "every dog has its day" {note Hommlet is overrun with dogs}. Antagonists: Lubash/Lareth, Senshock, the traders (and their men & spy), Zert? = Lolth's faction. Young Prince Thrommel as Hamlet, {if rescued} philosophizing and contemplating his own mortality {he should go on a killing spree at the temple if rescued, but he instead departs}, motivated to avenge his father {unless Prince Thrommel is not what he appears to be, but is instead the bastard son of his usurping uncle - this seems likely} when his treacherous, morally corrupt uncle murders King Thrommel, takes the throne, and incestuously marries Prince Thrommel's mother. There is overwhelming grief, seething rage, and perhaps both real and feigned lunacy/madness?

[davegibsongreyhawkdm]

Note that Gundigoot = dog + outing (short pleasure trip).